1975 ignition control module toasting another one..

[pedal2themetal]

HI All
I thought I posted this awhile back but can't find it... any way I have another ignition control module going out.. I've been thru like 3 or 4 in the past 30,000 miles.. this one is only like 1 to 2 years old.. bought from Napa auto.. Is there a better one over a stock application .. its a 5 pin one. I'm getting frustrated at having them be so bad.. the wires are kind of tight maybe I need to replace the pig tail to get some relief on the wires??
thanks in advance

 

[Kern Dog]

I have asked and I don't think it has been clearly answered Does low battery voltage and the alternator charging at a higher rate affect the life of the electronic ignition.
The question is buried somewhere in this thread.


Are you ready for a real weird one? Random NO spark from a MP electronic ignition system despite numerous parts swapped around...

 

[RJRENTON]

HI All
I thought I posted this awhile back but can't find it... any way I have another ignition control module going out.. I've been thru like 3 or 4 in the past 30,000 miles.. this one is only like 1 to 2 years old.. bought from Napa auto.. Is there a better one over a stock application .. its a 5 pin one. I'm getting6 frustrated at having them be so bad.. the wires are kind of tight maybe I need to replace the pig tail to get some relief on the wires??
thanks in advance

Perhaps you should consider going back to the "origional" points, coil and ballast resistor and quit shoveling money on what you have so much poor luck with your present system. WHY DID YOU CONVERT TO ELECTRONIC IGNITION IN THE FIRST PLACE.....a buddy, magazine article, cruise peer pressure, in search of 50+ hp...or ??? IMO....quite fiddle ******* around, put the points back, and enjoy your car...nothing beats a reliable car ...instead of trying to fix it all the time....especially when it breaks down on the road......just a thought......others will disagree.......
BOB RENTON

 

[RemCharger]

Chrysler disagreed, ( you know buddies / uncles etc) and abandoned the points altogether . Despite the higher cost.
Bunch of fiddle fuckers.

 

[Sixpactogo]

I myself have never had an ignition control module fail. However, I'm sure that others have not been so lucky. I'm pretty sure the biggest reason I have not had a failure is because I verify the case ground to negative battery post is less than .5 ohms. It seems everyone bolts them to the firewall, plugs them in and has no clue that they will get hot and open a transistor killing the spark to the engine until it happens. Then blame the ECU when it was a piss poor ground that caused the issue. It is not the only thing that happens but the most common for sure. A digital Ohm meter and installation directions should be mandatory when these things are purchased. I wonder how many threads have been created on this site and others over this very common issue?

 

[RJRENTON]

Chrysler disagreed, ( you know buddies / uncles etc) and abandoned the points altogether . Despite the higher cost.
Bunch of fiddle fuckers.

It would be interesting to note the percentage of ignition issues (all) that are related to electronic ignition (incl the ECU, Pertronics, MSD, coil, ballast resistor, etc.) vs the "old" points/condenser, coil, ballast resistor........by way of the forum's postings, I would guess it's about 98% electronic ignition problem issues vs 2% for points/condenser, coil ballast resistor issues.......but everyone seems to favor electronic ignition (the old origional equipment and the retrofit stuff not the systems on new cars, coil on plug type, GDI, etc).....and just accept their inherent problems......yet are continually bitching, about the related problems.....or, as the old saying goes: "what price is progress??".......WHY IS THIS????........(possibly, they, the owners, made an error in judgement ????....never!!!....(probably due to ego?)......just an observation.......
BOB RENTON

 

[Sixpactogo]

It would be interesting to note the percentage of ignition issues (all) that are related to electronic ignition (incl the ECU, Pertronics, MSD, coil, ballast resistor, etc.) vs the "old" points/condenser, coil, ballast resistor........by way of the forum's postings, I would guess it's about 98% electronic ignition problem issues vs 2% for points/condenser, coil ballast resistor issues.......but everyone seems to favor electronic ignition (the old origional equipment and the retrofit stuff not the systems on new cars, coil on plug type, GDI, etc).....and just accept their inherent problems......yet are continually bitching, about the related problems.....or, as the old saying goes: "what price is progress??".......WHY IS THIS????........(possibly, they, the owners, made an error in judgement ????....never!!!....(probably due to ego?)......just an observation.......
BOB RENTON

The Points and condenser were a tried and true system for sure and a simple one at that. However forgetting to put the grease on the cam, allows the tang on the points to wear quickly and the spark gap goes away in short order. How many people did that? I have to include myself in that one. The truth of the matter is, Mopar created the electronic ignition because it was better and longer lasting but only if it were properly installed. Years ago, most of the problems were install related. Now-a-days, the parts are foreign made and far inferior adding to the problems.

 

[Sinitro]

I agree that the mopar OE points/condenser system worked fine...
Even though the timing could change as the rubbing block was wore down...
But the problem today is that the majority of mopar points available today are junko..
As the rubbing block is made of crappy material..
The only solution is to find a source of some of the original OE mopar points, they are of much high quality.

Just my $0.02...

 

[Don Frelier]

Perhaps you should consider going back to the "origional" points, coil and ballast resistor and quit shoveling money on what you have so much poor luck with your present system. WHY DID YOU CONVERT TO ELECTRONIC IGNITION IN THE FIRST PLACE.....a buddy, magazine article, cruise peer pressure, in search of 50+ hp...or ??? IMO....quite fiddle ******* around, put the points back, and enjoy your car...nothing beats a reliable car ...instead of trying to fix it all the time....especially when it breaks down on the road......just a thought......others will disagree.......
BOB RENTON

He has a 1975 318.
Points were not original (<- note spelling here) they came with a 4 pin ballast and electronic ignition
What makes you think he converted it?

 

[RJRENTON]

I agree that the mopar OE points/condenser system worked fine...
Even though the timing could change as the rubbing block was wore down...
But the problem today is that the majority of mopar points available today are junko..
As the rubbing block is made of crappy material..
The only solution is to find a source of some of the original OE mopar points, they are of much high quality.

Just my $0.02...

OR....using the reverse engineered MOPAR circuit board schematic, build your own ECU, sourcing the components from whomever you think can supply the quality you desire/with the reliability you need....and .....based on the coil and ballast resistor values suggested by Ray @hallifaxhops, per your intended application, triggered by the MOPAR electronic distributor. Timing with the points system can change due to rubbing block wear, however, with today's modern plastics (PTFE, HDPE, etc) this is seldom the case. Shop around for the NOS ORIGIONAL points available on the internet/ebay, you mentioned the rubbing block is "crappy material".....do you know what it is or are you just speculating? IMO....the "best" points were/are made by STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS...BLUE STREAK....as they have the largest, ventilated contact surface area plus use LUBRICATED HDPE/nylon rubbing blocks......check online for availability OR haunt the Mopar swap meets/Chryslers at Carlisle/Mopar Nationals/local cruises...AND at swap meets, shop by MOPAR PARTS NUMBERS, don't rely on some counter person.....NOS MOPAR stuff is still available......just don't look/buy Rock Auto/Napa/local auto parts.....that's where you'll find the CHINESE ****.....then bitch about the quality. Ignition components are just as critical as lubricants, cam shaft selection, wax, coolant, spark plugs, tire pressure, gasoline, carburetors, etc.......just my opinion........
BOB RENTON

 

[Sinitro]

OR....using the reverse engineered MOPAR circuit board schematic, build your own ECU, sourcing the components from whomever you think can supply the quality you desire/with the reliability you need....and .....based on the coil and ballast resistor values suggested by Ray @hallifaxhops, per your intended application, triggered by the MOPAR electronic distributor. Timing with the points system can change due to rubbing block wear, however, with today's modern plastics (PTFE, HDPE, etc) this is seldom the case. Shop around for the NOS ORIGIONAL points available on the internet/ebay, you mentioned the rubbing block is "crappy material".....do you know what it is or are you just speculating? IMO....the "best" points were/are made by STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS...BLUE STREAK....as they have the largest, ventilated contact surface area plus use LUBRICATED HDPE/nylon rubbing blocks......check online for availability OR haunt the Mopar swap meets/Chryslers at Carlisle/Mopar Nationals/local cruises...AND at swap meets, shop by MOPAR PARTS NUMBERS, don't rely on some counter person.....NOS MOPAR stuff is still available......just don't look/buy Rock Auto/Napa/local auto parts.....that's where you'll find the CHINESE ****.....then bitch about the quality. Ignition components are just as critical as lubricants, cam shaft selection, wax, coolant, spark plugs, tire pressure, gasoline, carburetors, etc.......just my opinion........
BOB RENTON

Don't know about building my own ECU...
Keep in mind..
The rubbing block of the breaker points are made from a phenolic plastic material that would wear, and thus over time not impact the dimensions of the distributor cam. Making it necessary to supply a small amount of an application-specific lubricant to the distributor cam so that an acceptable rubbing block life would be extended. The critical specification is really the amount of dwell, in basic terms dwell defines the length of time measured in distributor cam degrees that the points are closed and the primary circuit of the coil is being charged. In todays' electronic ignition systems many mechanics may find found this confusing. When a physical dimension was applied for setting the breaker points, it was for the gap between the contacts, but a dwell meter read when the contacts were closed. Hence, as the rubbing block wore, the gap decreased and the dwell period increased. Conversely, if the point gap were too large, then the dwell would decrease. Regarding the phenolic plastic materials, this is a totally separate discussion. However note there are multiple types of phenolic plastics differing mainly in various grades, including paper-based, canvas-based, and linen-based, each having different cost, mechanical, durability properties. If U need any further clarification just PM me...

Just my $0.02...

 

[RJRENTON]

Don't know about building my own ECU...
Keep in mind..
The rubbing block of the breaker points are made from a phenolic plastic material that would wear, and thus over time not impact the dimensions of the distributor cam. Making it necessary to supply a small amount of an application-specific lubricant to the distributor cam so that an acceptable rubbing block life would be extended. The critical specification is really the amount of dwell, in basic terms dwell defines the length of time measured in distributor cam degrees that the points are closed and the primary circuit of the coil is being charged. In todays' electronic ignition systems many mechanics may find found this confusing. When a physical dimension was applied for setting the breaker points, it was for the gap between the contacts, but a dwell meter read when the contacts were closed. Hence, as the rubbing block wore, the gap decreased and the dwell period increased. Conversely, if the point gap were too large, then the dwell would decrease. Regarding the phenolic plastic materials, this is a totally separate discussion. However note there are multiple types of phenolic plastics differing mainly in various grades, including paper-based, canvas-based, and linen-based, each having different cost, mechanical, durability properties. If U need any further clarification just PM me...
.,
Just my $0.02...

I totally understand the function of the automotive ignition system (I hold a BSEE, MS macro economics, and a registered Professional Electrical engineer) and the function of the rubbing block. Dwell, and the resultant influence on timing...and all aspects of the ignition system, including inductive and capacitive reactance of the coil's windings; dwell is a time/angular rotation function but the points rubbing blocks are made from NYLON, HDPE, PTFE, but phenolic plastics are based on:
Phenolic resin is a synthetic plastic that's made from phenol and formaldehyde. It's also known as phenol formaldehyde resin (PF) or phenoplast.....perhaps back in the 20's when Sloane-Kettering (forrunner to Delco later GM), developed the system, that's the only material available inexpensively........WHY NOT build your own MOPAR style ECU????.....It's easy.....that way you can adjust the programmable transistor's dwell timing network (when coil recharges) and value of the power switching transistor and the protective network ...... let's bury this thread???? OK?
BOB RENTON

 

[dadsbee]

We really don't care Bob..... go grab that bottle of Single Malt.

 

[Sinitro]

I totally understand the function of the automotive ignition system (I hold a BSEE, MS macro economics, and a registered Professional Electrical engineer) and the function of the rubbing block. Dwell, and the resultant influence on timing...and all aspects of the ignition system, including inductive and capacitive reactance of the coil's windings; dwell is a time/angular rotation function but the points rubbing blocks are made from NYLON, HDPE, PTFE, but phenolic plastics are based on:
Phenolic resin is a synthetic plastic that's made from phenol and formaldehyde. It's also known as phenol formaldehyde resin (PF) or phenoplast.....perhaps back in the 20's when Sloane-Kettering (forrunner to Delco later GM), developed the system, that's the only material available inexpensively........WHY NOT build your own MOPAR style ECU????.....It's easy.....that way you can adjust the programmable transistor's dwell timing network (when coil recharges) and value of the power switching transistor and the protective network ...... let's bury this thread???? OK?
BOB RENTON

Nice..
Just wanted make sure the basics are covered...
I too have certain credentials, I hold (3) degrees, granted mutiple patents, been a professional engineer for many years
doing product development, design, sourcing in the categories of OE auto electronics, auto-infotainment, digital audio systems for
some of the largest automotive brands including Toyota/Lexus, Nissan and Chrysler. Regarding building your own ECU, sounds like a project
but here one needs to use a quality, name-brand power transistor as most of the present off-shore ECUs cut corners here.

Just my $0.02...

 

[1967coronet]

HI All
I thought I posted this awhile back but can't find it... any way I have another ignition control module going out.. I've been thru like 3 or 4 in the past 30,000 miles.. this one is only like 1 to 2 years old.. bought from Napa auto.. Is there a better one over a stock application .. its a 5 pin one. I'm getting frustrated at having them be so bad.. the wires are kind of tight maybe I need to replace the pig tail to get some relief on the wires??
thanks in advance

If our illustrious member is done listing his pedigree and suggesting you convert your 1975 318 to points. I did search and copy a post @HALIFAXHOPS made some time back that may be of help.

(The only difference in the circuit / ECM with the dual ballast is that the second ballast resistance feed power into the 5th pin on the ECU. That is no longer used, and unless you find a really old original vehicle or really old NOS, most any new ECU WILL be 4 pin.

You can use a 4 pin box in a 5 pin harness, but not the other way around

Incidently, the "single" (or other half) of the ballast is the same exact circuity/ wiring as the old points setup. In fact in an emergency, if the thing quits, you can stuff in a breaker point dist. hook the wire to the coil, unplug the ECU and go

In today's Chineseoficianicated products, hard to say, but ECUs usually don't fail that often

 

[RJRENTON]

Don't know about building my own ECU...
Keep in mind..
The rubbing block of the breaker points are made from a phenolic plastic material that would wear, and thus over time not impact the dimensions of the distributor cam. Making it necessary to supply a small amount of an application-specific lubricant to the distributor cam so that an acceptable rubbing block life would be extended. The critical specification is really the amount of dwell, inI basic terms dwell defines the length of time measured in distributor cam degrees that the points are closed and the primary circuit of the coil is being charged. In todays' electronic ignition systems many mechanics may find found this confusing. When a physical dimension was applied for setting the breaker points, it was for the gap between the contacts, but a dwell meter read when the contacts were closed. Hence, as the rubbing block wore, the gap decreased and the dwell period increased. Conversely, if the point gap were too large, then the dwell would decrease. Regarding the phenolic plastic materials, this is a totally separate discussion. However note there are multiple types of phenolic plastics differing mainly in various grades, including paper-based, canvas-based, and linen-based, each having different cost, mechanical, durability properties. If U need any further clarification just PM me...

Just my $0.02...

I totally understand the function of he rubbing block. Dwell, and the resultant influence on timing....but the points rubbing blocks are made from MYLON, HDPE,PTFE, but phenolic plastics are based q

We really don't care Bob..... go grab that bottle of Single Malt.

Learn a little.....it can't/won't you..knowledge is a wonderful thing...inpress your cruise buddy's......btw.....just finished my taxes.....today, is a 2x or 3x fingers high in a rocks glass, Black Jack Daniel's, neat with water back, the fist one, straight down, the other 2 to be savored.....maybe, the USA will buy Canada.....???....
BOB RENTON

 

[dadsbee]

Sorry Bob, but at this stage in life I have little left to learn, but always willing, unlike you. As I've told you before I own a pinky ring just like you, Electrical and Mechanical. First job I was hired for was to work on the Canada Arm for the shuttle. I never started there, as I went elsewhere for over double the money.

I could care less about your tax returns, but I do have 3 corporations to get them done for by months end + our personals.

Go drown your sorrows on that JD. As for politics they have no place in general. Maybe a mod will do us a favor and finally toast your ***!

 

[Don Frelier]

@HALIFAXHOPS might have a unit for sale or a good recommendation.
Unfortunately these guys fixated on using points have obscured your original request.

I haven't forgotten about your problem.
I'll look through my stuff and if I have something I'll pm you and send it.

 

[Sinitro]

I totally understand the function of he rubbing block. Dwell, and the resultant influence on timing....but the points rubbing blocks are made from MYLON, HDPE,PTFE, but phenolic plastics are based q

Learn a little.....it can't/won't you..knowledge is a wonderful thing...inpress your cruise buddy's......btw.....just finished my taxes.....today, is a 2x or 3x fingers high in a rocks glass, Black Jack Daniel's, neat with water back, the fist one, straight down, the other 2 to be savored.....maybe, the USA will buy Canada.....???....
BOB RENTON

Wow!!
Never knew rubbing blocks were made out of Mylon...
Could U pls confirm which brand of points using a Mylon rubbing block.
WTF..
USA is buying Canada?? I thought USA was negotiating with Denmark to buy Greenland??
Trump sure is busy getting ready to invade Panama..


Just my $0.02...

 

[RJRENTON]

Sorry Bob, but at this stage in life I have little left to learn, but always willing, unlike you. As I've told you before I own a pinky ring just like you, Electrical and Mechanical. First job I was hired for was to work on the Canada Arm for the shuttle. I never started there, as I went elsewhere for over double the money.

I could care less about your tax returns, but I do have 3 corporations to get them done for by months end + our personals.

Go drown your sorrows on that JD. As for politics they have no place in general. Maybe a mod will do us a favor and finally toast your ***!

Sorry you feel that way about learning. (Anything??)....an awesomeresponsibility: knowing everything......but depending on one's philosophies or beliefs.....life is a learning experience to be coveted and absorbed and enjoyed everyday and reacted to, either good or bad.....but....we each have our own goals in life.....I choose to celebrate life....it's not a monetary thing....it's not collecting old cars or related items....but being alive...just a few random thoughts to ponder.......your turn if you want.....if not....punt.....
BOB RENTON