400 block-230 casting

[Cranky]

About the only problem I see is cap walk but alloy caps should solve that. Ran 10.60's with a stock block 440 and that was the only problem after over 300 passes. The car was around 3300 without driver. Helped a buddy build an engine with a later model 400 stroker (499), Indy top end and alloy mains, it ran 10.0 off the trailer and 9.30 with a small shot of the funny gas.

 

[andyf]

I used to see cap walk on the RB blocks when we used 12:1 compression (or higher). But once I figured out that we could make 700+ hp using pump gas with the Trick Flow heads I stopped doing high compression engines. I haven't seen cap walk with any of the pump gas low deck engines and they are all making 700 to 750 hp. So the difference is either the compression ratio, or B vs. RB. Could also be a little of both.

 

[not so famous bob]

x2. The guys pushing girdles are selling them.
The Stage heads are a crapshoot unless someone's fixed them. They were a very good potential head, but as many MP parts of that era, the production castings and work sucked.

Ever notice the cap walk on hi perf. engines, before and after stud girdle installation ?

 

[m79ded]

I used to see cap walk on the RB blocks when we used 12:1 compression (or higher). But once I figured out that we could make 700+ hp using pump gas with the Trick Flow heads I stopped doing high compression engines. I haven't seen cap walk with any of the pump gas low deck engines and they are all making 700 to 750 hp. So the difference is either the compression ratio, or B vs. RB. Could also be a little of both.

Thank you very much Andy, that information is very helpful to us. Keep up the great work and have a very merry X-Mas

 

[moper]

Ever notice the cap walk on hi perf. engines, before and after stud girdle installation ?

On factory assemblies, fairly common. Once the factory caps are attached with studs, no more. Although to be honest I'd wager the lighter parts and very accurate balancing goes a long way to address that as much as the studs. I've put steel caps in before, but more because the owners demanded them more than I felt a need. I have suggested aluminum caps for others and those engines have lived quote well at 700-800+hp. (shrugging) I've just never found a use for a girdle. They got popular when the bigger engines started ripping blocks apart. But there are some, like Andy, that don't have that problem. My own opinion - I think as the costs of building an engine that can make real power (like enough power to quickly break a block) came down, and more people were putting them together, there were some that thought accuracy wasn't as big of a deal. Then again, some people can break anything with enough ignorance. All I can say is I believe a girdle is wasted money on anything. On lower output engines (IMO under 650hp) they only waste money because good machining and lighter parts will let those live fairly well. On a high powered engine (past 650) you probably need a better block. Either way - no value. I'm surprised Andy goes to 750... But I wouldn't question his findings or opinion. It's just different from mine. I'm not sure on his tenure. I've got 32 years doing these, but I don't do it professionally. I think he's got more experience than I do on this subject.

 

[monaco66coupe]

hope I am not bumping in the post, But I can buy a 11/72 dated 400 four barrel from a police car, and it has a forged crank. The VIN is 1973. The book says they did exist. it is the 630 block. is it a valuable piece?

 

[5.7 hemi]

I have a 630 block, nothing special.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I have bought 400s with both forged and cast cranks. The best blocks according to 440 Source are: 230 block-best, 630-second, 530 block (later models) -third. But they are all plenty strong. The most important thing to look for, is the block with the thickest cyl walls. Whether it's a 230, 530, or 630 is secondary.
By the way, just looking at their website, and they now have cross bolted main caps available, like the 426 Hemi has. That would be far superior to a stud girdle, in my opinion.

 

[Challenger340]

I used to see cap walk on the RB blocks when we used 12:1 compression (or higher). But once I figured out that we could make 700+ hp using pump gas with the Trick Flow heads I stopped doing high compression engines. I haven't seen cap walk with any of the pump gas low deck engines and they are all making 700 to 750 hp. So the difference is either the compression ratio, or B vs. RB. Could also be a little of both.

Yep same-same.
The cap walk thing(especially #4) seemed to be related to the higher pressure engines NOT correlated to actual Dyno power, no matter how good I figured we had the tune ?
Good Balancing(slightly over) obviously seemed to help #4 as well ?

Girdles do nothing to "capture" the cap laterally, but don't seem to do any real harm either ? so as per customer requests I still use them as to keep 'em happy.

 

[moper]

so as per customer requests I still use them as to keep 'em happy.

I don't fault anyone that does for that reason. Sometimes arguing against mass merchandising is just not worth the energy.

 

[Bighead440]

Look for the BOLD casting numbers for the thickest webs (strength) if that's a concern. Core shift/thin cylinder walls can occur with any main web beef, and must be sonic tested/verified.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Here's a pic of casting date number, and main web supports.

 

[hangn0ut]

Yep same-same.
The cap walk thing(especially #4) seemed to be related to the higher pressure engines NOT correlated to actual Dyno power, no matter how good I figured we had the tune ?
Good Balancing(slightly over) obviously seemed to help #4 as well ?

Girdles do nothing to "capture" the cap laterally, but don't seem to do any real harm either ? so as per customer requests I still use them as to keep 'em happy.

I have balanced a few motors. From weighing parts to adding mallory metal. How is one balanced slightly over? How much? Rpm related? Bobweight get a little extra? I have heard that term used before. Thanks