440 Build, cam and head gasket selection

[jenkins71]

Hi guys, me again with the 440 build.
I have finally decided to run the flat-top 2266 pistons rather that the domed 2295 pistons, to keep the compression from getting too high. I will be using a set of 915 heads to keep the compression up a bit.
With this piston/head combo, I will have a CR of 9.05:1 using the composite gaskets in my Victor Reinz kit. Should I swap to a steel shim gasket, to bump it up to 9.5:1?

Also, I would love a recommendation for a camshaft if anyone has any ideas. The car has a 727 and 3.55 gears. I'm not sure what torque converter is in it, but it is a higher stall speed than stock. The car is a 71 Charger.
I will be using this car as a daily driver, and am looking for increased low- and mid-range power. I am also looking for something that will give me that lopey sound.
The motor had a Comp Cams XE274H-10 cam in it, with very little wear. I would love to re-use the cam if that would be a good idea.

Should I degree the cam on this build?

Thanks a lot guys! Your input is so valuable to me on my first engine build.

 

[Meep-Meep]

9.5:1 should be just fine or even 9.0. The cam I'm running in my late model 440 is the MoPar .455 / 272 and it works very well. However, I'm running it with 10.1:1 CR. Yes, that's on the edge of comfort, and I do have a pinging problem, which is why I recommended a max of 9.5:1. Look at my engine and car details in the 12 second build thread.

 

[GTX MATT]

That cam should work fine for a street 440 and give you a little gallop, were you happy with the way it ran before?

9.5:1 is better but 9.0 isn't terrible. Steel shims are cheap from Mr Gasket for what its worth. If the heads are freshly milled I'd run the steel shim.

ALWAYS degree the cam.

 

[Banzaiii67]

I'm not an expert, but when I was researching and deciding on my build, I planned to use steel shim head gaskets. Somewhere along the way, I read about gripes with overheating and blown steel shim head gaskets. It had me somewhat concerned so I looked further into the complaint and maybe i'm being paranoid or it doesn't make much of a difference at all but this is what I found.

Here is a 60's-1970 Big block coolant passage look like
View attachment 235394

This is what a 71+ Big block Coolant passage looks like.
View attachment 235395

When you look at a Mopar Performance or Mr. Gasket steel shim head gasket, it has a very small slit in the gasket itself, these match up the the "figure 8" passage that is in the 71+ blocks, which Chrysler enlarged for better cooling.

If you have a early block, and you place mopar perfomance or mr. gasket steel shim head gasket the aforementioned slits will 80% covered.

Here's what the Mopar Perfomance one look like


Somewhere along the way, Greg at superformance got a hold of the old direct connection steel shim head gaskets that were factory replacement for early blocks. He created a die and this is what it looks like. Notice the rectangular cut out. Now if you pop that on, the coolant passage on the block is not blocked and matches up well the the passages on the cylinder heads.



Here's a link to the superformance head gaskets.

http://www.manciniracing.com/sustshhegapa.html

 

[jenkins71]

Interesting note, thanks....
I have a mid-70's block (figure 8 coolant ports) and '67 heads. So I guess I would be fine with the regular steel gaskets? I might just use the composites anyway since I have them....

 

[eldubb440]

i milled my 915 heads .040 rather than go with the thin gaskets......... how far "down in the hole" are your pistons?

 

[jenkins71]

They are .0991" in the hole, which is a lot I know. But, I feel like 9:1 compression is pretty good for the street, from what guys are telling me.
I was thinking about the Hughes Whiplash cam... I love that idle sound. I know it might seem hokey due to the marketing name, but I was checking out info on other sites and they say its good for a lower compression motor..

 

[m79ded]

any of those really big spread cams will give you a nice exhaust sound you don't have to necessarily stick with Hughes. With 9:1 comp don't go too big with duration because you will bleed of too much cyl pressure and lose what little you have. Stay in the 222-228 range intake for street use and will make for a snappy fun to drive car for the street.

I saw a cam from Crower that seemed good and heard good stuff from the people on this forum as well it's the Crower 271HDP I'm thinking of getting that one.

You can also call up places like Cam motion or Bullet and they will cut one for your needs. I've dealt with Bullet on a few occasions and had nothing but a great experience with them. They spent the time explaining and made up a nice cam for the car.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Banzaiii67....
Good post...good research.
Thanks man!

 

[1966satellite]

I have a very similar set up in my Satellite. I'm using 906 heads and the steel shim gasket which gives me about 9.5 compression. I have a Comp Cams SK-21-224-4 cam kit in it. I'm happy with the performance and the sound. If you give me your e-mail I can send you a video of it at idle so you can see if you like the sound.

 

[jenkins71]

Cool! Thanks man, PM sent.
Does anyone know a reason why my composite gasket would be better than a steel gasket?

 

[Banzaiii67]

Cool! Thanks man, PM sent.
Does anyone know a reason why my composite gasket would be better than a steel gasket?

Some say that eventually a steel shim head gasket will blow out in between cylinders 1-3, 5-7, 2-4, 6-8 where the exhaust valves are right next to each other.

 

[Banzaiii67]

Regarding your cam, I have also have the comp xe274 cam with 3.73 gears and decent sized stall converter. I could daily drive my car on the street but if you hit the highway it gets old pulling 3k @ 60mph after about an hour. Not sure what your commute is like though.

I'm sure the xe274 cam would be fine, but lunati voodoo 60303, the crower cam mentioned above by M79ded or meeps cam would be a bit easier tune for the street.

 

[Cranky]

Some say that eventually a steel shim head gasket will blow out in between cylinders 1-3, 5-7, 2-4, 6-8 where the exhaust valves are right next to each other.

The only cylinders where the exhaust valves are next to each other are on cylinders 3 and 5 on the left and 4 and 6 on the right side. And if the deck and heads have a good finish, you shouldn't have burning problems. If you can feel machine tool marks, it's not a good finish. Very old school builders wanted the tool marks to help 'hold' the gasket in place but you really don't want that.

Jenkins....as for using a degree wheel on a cam....I do all of mine that way, stock or not. That way you know for sure everything is right. For all you know, the cam may not have been ground perfectly on the numbers nor do you know if the sprocket key ways are in the right place or even if the dots are for that matter. And lets say everything is off in the same direction a couple of degrees or so or worse? Many will say it's not needed but I'm not going to take the chance and get one that's out.

 

[IQ52]

Cranky is so right about timing every cam you install. We just installed a custom roller cam 110 LS ground 106 ICL and used a $150 timing chain and gear set. Set it up dot to dot to begin checking because it was supposed to be ground 4 degrees advance. Nope it came out 110 and we had to advance it those 4 degrees. If at all possible time every cam you install. You'll be very glad you did.

 

[66Satellite47]

I ran steel shims on my drag motors for years, 11.5 to 13.0 compression with no problems. There's not much performance difference between 9.0 & 9.5. I have steel shims on the wall, one set with the Pentastar emblem has the larger rectangular passage & a set of Mopar Perf w/ the narrow slits. I ran both with 906 & 915 heads on both early & later blocks. No problems.If you go with steel shims, I always use KW Copper Kote. Easy & sure seemed to seal real good. Also all the composite gaskets I have seen use the narrow slits. I ran composites on several motors too, no problems. I suspect early motors fed more coolant to the heads due to to generally higher compression. The cam seems fine to me, I had a similar but slightly larger solid in my 500" street motor. Ran & idled great with really good sound. Not much top end power though. Cranky is sure right, always degree the cam, timing sets & sprockets can vary a few degrees.

 

[Banzaiii67]

The only cylinders where the exhaust valves are next to each other are on cylinders 3 and 5 on the left and 4 and 6 on the right side.

I knew that, not sure if it was the cold medicine or the lack of sleep. Thanks for correcting me!

 

[Malicious]

I'm new to older style engines, previously I've had adjustable cam gears, made life a cinch. Whats the best way to go about advancing or retarding the cam? Just offset bushes? I notice that mancini stock a timing chain set that appears to have multiple keyways in the cam sproket, I'm assuming that can be used to adjust the cam timing too? Any other's?

 

[jenkins71]

You either have a sprocket with multiple keyways, or an offset woodruff key. Or a combo.

I guess since I'm doing a full rebuild I should probably degree the cam. I just can't come to terms wit hshelling out all that dough for something I am only gonna use maybe a handful of times! Anyone interested in loaning me one? I will pay for it...

- - - Updated - - -

ALso, yeah, that's where my old steel gaskets blew, between the two middle cylinders! The gaskets that started this whole engine rebuild.

 

[Garys1969RR]

I've been using the steel shim gaskets for many years with never a problem. C/Ratios as high as 13 to 1. I use copper coat spray a gasket lately, but used to just use aluminum spray paint.