440 cam choice

[nigel]

Hey guys and gals. I'm putting a 440 motor together that I got from a guy. Gave it a general overhaul and now I'm looking for a cam. I wanted to get a whiplash cam but the compression ratio is too high for it. The pistons are .005 in the hole. They are also flat top. The heads are 516 with 84cc chambers. I might have a lead on a set of 906 heads here in ireland but if the deal doesn't happen I'll be sticking with the 516's.

The car is not for racing. Just cruising but I would like a nice sounding idle. What would people recommend?

 

[nigel]

I should've also mentioned that the motor is still stock bore running a cast intake topped with a 750cfm quick fuel slayer

 

[NSS Guy]

Contact Hughes Engines, they can get you the right cam for that combination.
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/index.php

 

[Paul Secoy]

.005" in the hole with a closed chamber head sounds like a bunch of compression to me. I wish I wouldn't have to lick so many stamps to send them, I'd donate a set of 906's to a good lad from Ireland, even though I think your compression will still be up there.

 

[BSB67]

Do the piston have valve notches?

 

[RJRENTON]

I use the Crane equilivant to the Mopar 292° @ 0.509" lift @ 4° retard, with Crane springs with damper, Perfect Circle teflon guide seals, and Crane toller rockers with 1.6 ratio. There sre several other Mopar cam grinders who offer excellent choices like Comp Cams, Hughes, old Racer Brown. I'm sure others can suggest more sources to consider. Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON

 

[Don Frelier]

I like the comp cams Magnum series .470 lift 270 duration. It will sound nice and fit the usage you are looking for.

 

[wyrmrider]

what gas do you have available?
forget roller tip rockers
you get some quench with the 516 and none with the 906's
906 is a step backward
forget comp cams- they have nothing for you nor does crane
talk to someone with real MOPAR high compression experience like Racer brown
send a PM to DART6999 who is a Crower Cam and a MOPAR Guy
calculate the compression yourself and post back
what exhaust? can't make any suggestions with limited data you give
post trans, gear, what vehicle, and usage, everything
is this a 6 pack block and pistons - that's what that compression height tells me
you can open the chambers 5 or more ccs
you can D Dish the pistons
or run good gas
pm AJ over in the FABO forum and ask him to run the dynamic compression calcs for you and tell you where you need to close the intake valve to get dynamic compression to where you need it with gas etc you have
as with the 906 heads putting in a thick head gasket will make the problem worse
any E85 or alcohol blends available- that would make it easy

 

[threewood]

The Felpro 1009 has a compression thickness of .039" plus .005" in the hole is a .044" quench. Do some calculations with what you have and see where you land with the compression. Something with a decent overlap would cut dynamic compression down. I like the Hughes solid lifter camshafts so I would call them.

 

[nigel]

Cheers for the replies so far guys. So the fuel we can get our hands on is 95 octane and some stations sell 97. Also we can get a blend E95 which they claim to be 99 octane. It's hard to find. Very few stations sell it.
My car is a 69 satellite which was a 318 car. I got a donor 66 new yorker and stripped all the good stuff from it. The back end is 8 3/4 with 3.23 gears. I'm using the 727 trans which I am building up with the red alto clutches. The torque converter is 1700 stall but I'm going to buy a new one to suit whichever cam that will go into the motor.
I stripped the motor down for inspection as I know one of the guys that owned the car many years ago and he was not the best to maintain a car.The motor was overhauled at some stage of its life. The rod journals are ground .030 under but the rest of the motor has been left alone. The bores are standard diameter with no taper. The pistons are flat top with no valve relief and all are in perfect condition.
For exhaust I'm using https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g9141/ and making a custom 3" stainless steel exhaust with cross over. I'm really looking forward to doing that because I'm a pipe fitter/welder.
So I did a calculation and got 10.5:1 compression. It's pretty dam high but I have the fuel here for it which is good. The car is for street cruising, going to cars and coffee events and eating rice away from lights. We don't have any drag strips here in ireland which is sad. Motorsport is not a big thing here in ireland unfortunately. I'm looking for a cam that gives nice ground shaking idle which will wake my 5am house party having neighbours, leave kids crying and put a smile on my face.

 

[BSB67]

A few things seem off. 1) crank turned 0.030" but everything else is untouched, 2) 516 heads with 84 cc. These two things are possible, but really raise my radar.

But here is the big one: There are no flat top pistons w/o valve reliefs that will be 0.005" in the hole. If it is really 0.005" in the hole (verses 0.050" maybe?) then the block has been decked 0.050", and has pistons in it that have not been available for 30 years, or is an original 68 or 69 motor with it's deck cut 0.050".

Again, too many things don't seem to add up.

Finally, I don't think your gas octane rating is (R+M)/2 like ours, it's likely RON. Meaning your 95 octane is like 92 or 93 here. Keep that in mind when picking your CR and getting advice from this side of the pond.

 

[nigel]

I'm stumped that the rest of the motor has been left untouched but it came from a 38k mile car that spent it's life outside by the coast here in ireland which means the body was ready to fall away from the motor.
I checked the pistons with a deck bridge at the top of the stroke and it came in at .005 and the pistons are dead flat. No relief at all.

 

[Cranky]

I'm getting 10.5 too using a .039/.040 gasket. I'm kinda lost too on those pistons and would have to do more checking to find out what's up. I'd have to check the stroke of the crank and the deck height of the block. Was the crank offset ground? Have no idea what bearing would fit something like that. What year is this engine? If everything checks out, with the gas you have, 10.5 would work with the right cam. Just make sure you check valve to piston clearance! Might even have to install valve reliefs in what you have. Btw, with a steel shim head gasket, 11-1 is right around the corner

 

[nigel]

11:1 is just a tiny bit more than what I'm looking for. I don't know is it was off set ground or not. I just took rod bearings out that has .030 on them. The car it came out of was a 66 new yorker. The engine was running in the new yorker without any problem. I only took it apart because I know one of the guys that owned it back in the late 80's and he was not very good about looking after cars hence the body falling apart and the crank ground .030 under. I got an engine off the same guy before for my buddies mustang. The guy has no respect for cars and the body was so bad on the mustang the motor actually fell out of the car. It actually turned to dust.

 

[BSB67]

A factory original 1966 440 will have the piston 0.085" below the deck, or more.

 

[Cranky]

Wow.....he must have too much money.....

 

[nigel]

Your right there. The guy has a shed full of cars but unfortunately the garage came after the cars. They were all left outside his house for years so they are fairly far gone. The mustang was a 64 1/2 200ci with a 3 speed manual that belonged to his father from new. It lived it's entire life outdoors but the motor was good and I gave it a new home in my buddies car.

As for the pistons in the hole they should be around .085 but I measured everything and it's .005 so when the motor came out to get some work done they must've decked the block. I can see on piston number 1 that the rod spun a bearing and they machined the rod took all the journal's to .030 under. The reason I took the running motor apart was due to the flex plate looking like a dog had chewed on it. The bolt circle on the torque converter was 10" where as the flex plate holes were just over 11" so they took went the Bear Grylls way. Improvise, adapt, overcome.
Another thing. I was led to believe the 440 RB motor was internally balanced. The torque converter has a balance weight welded to it which I find very strange.

 

[wyrmrider]

you sure this is not a 413?
dbl check that compression distance, at all 4 corners if you can
and mike the bore again
6 pack would have valve reliefs
can you get the numbers off the block?
for that much compression, iron heads and not a race car you need someone experienced to pick the cam
let us know what those I suggested say
I would not trust hughes, they do not grind cams just pick one off the shelf and ship it
You may remember that Crower sold cams designed for high compression for the street- they understand the problem in addition Bullet has been around the block as has Engle neither is big enough that you would get the random tech guy...
.028 gasket works too with good gas
but I would not like to see more than .045 total and .035 works better
go over .050 and you WILL have detonation
I had two 65 (413) -66 (440) Imperials and was able to make them work with stock cams recurving the distributor but they did take USA premium gas

 

[62MAX]

Contact Hughes Engines, they can get you the right cam for that combination.
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/index.php

This !!

Contact a cam manufacturer and tell them what you have,as for asking recommendations here you will get different answer from different people,what works for one doesn't always work for others.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

As long as you put in a cam that bleeds down some compression you will be fine at 10.5. Cams with high lifts are probably not going to work without the addition of a valve relief. Imo most of Hughes cams may not have enough clearance and possibly many of the .904 lifter mopar grinds will have too much lift as well. Your engine may need a cam with a less aggressive profile with more duration and less lift.
Could you post pictures of your engine?