440 Ignition Timing with MSD system.

[mclarkphotos]

I may be asking an over asked question, but I might just be missing it..

Combo: MSD 6AL, MSD Coil, MSD Pro Billet distributor without vacuum advance and MSD wires (all new items). Engine is also Edelbrock performer single plane intake with Edelbrock card.

Question: Where is a good starting point and max for the timing. I'll be hooking up the timing light for the first time. Car starts up pretty good, but sucks from 1800 RPM to 2500 RPM then runs solid from there.

I know I may have a carb issue, I just want to make sure timing is correct before I start pulling vacuum measurements and tearing the carb apart.

Thanks,

 

[Meep-Meep]

Regardless of ignition system the total timing on a BB MoPar is 36-38 deg (32 deg for HEMI). Set the mechanical advance so it's all in by 2200 - 2500. You may find a happy place for the initial to be 10-15 BTC. Vacuum advance should be hooked up on the ported port on the carb and as a rough setting should add 10 deg when a vacuum signal is present. This 10 deg goes away, or should go away, under WOT.

 

[mclarkphotos]

Just finished checking the timing (I don't have a timing tape), but it's around 12-15 BTDC. It doesn't have vacuum advanced and when I went up to about 2200 RPM the timing didn't change. This would explain why it's not running real good. Anyone have some pointers about a MSD Pro Billet distributor and the timing curves?

 

[Manifold]

http://www.msdignition.com/instructions/Products/Distributors/8546.pdf?terms=advance curve 8546

According to the instructions, MSD sends those distributors out with heavy/slow springs. If you haven't already, I'd suggest reading through the instructions. You'll need to get some parts to bring in the curve faster.

 

[Stumper]

Did your distributor come with the kit of springs and bushings to "curve" it? It has a few different sets of cam springs to regulate how quickly the cams open and the bushings determine the amount of advance the distributor will make. If not you can buy the kit from Summit.

 

[Meep-Meep]

How about first checking to see if the rotor moves freely and springs back?

 

[Manifold]

How about first checking to see if the rotor moves freely and springs back?

No doubt! Ran into a GM HEI which was so gummed up on the inside (the grease/lube on the distributor shaft and housing was so old and sticky) that if the mechanical advance managed to engage/move, many times it wouldn't reset/return to base timing when the RPMs came down. I scratched my head over that one a bit before figuring it out... using the above method.

 

[Dennis H]

My 440 was balky and had to be coaxed for years. A friend installed a kit in the distributor and it runs like never before. It romps at 750 rpm. No balking or coaxing needed. The best $37.00 ever spent. I have a similar set up.
MSD AL, Edlebrock RPM, 850 Demon etc.

www.4secondsflat.com

Get an MSD Bushing Kit. Install was tricky but worth it.
$29 puls shipping
FBO Systmes
541 942-5920

Parts are Made in USA

 

[daredevil]

I would start out with one of the springs that come in it and a light one . Cant remember if its blue or silver. Then install the black bushing. Its an 18 degree advance limit. Time at 18* btdc at idle under 950 rpm and when you rev it you should jump to 36 *btdc. my 500 runs pretty well like this and its on pump gas.

 

[SUPERSTOCKRACER]

I would start out with one of the springs that come in it and a light one . Cant remember if its blue or silver. Then install the black bushing. Its an 18 degree advance limit. Time at 18* btdc at idle under 950 rpm and when you rev it you should jump to 36 *btdc. my 500 runs pretty well like this and its on pump gas.

I AGREE. start with 1 silver and 1 blue with black bushing.

 

[beezee]

I AGREE. start with 1 silver and 1 blue with black bushing.

My 496 is running the same silver, blue spring with black bushing,idles at 850 RPM,starts once warm with out even touching the gas .

 

[watermelon]

Hi all,

I see the 1 silver, 1 blue, with black bushing combo mentioned a few times here.

Is the silver a "heavy" silver or "light" silver?

The blue springs in my MSD kit at light ones.

I just finished up a conversion from points to an MSD 6AL Box, MSD Pro Billet Distrib, and MSD Blaster 2 coil combo in my 440. The engine fired right up.

I don't have a tach so I cannot look at RPMs. I do have an old Actron Engine Analyzer which I'm tryin to figure out how to use; it has an RPM setting.



watermelon

 

[O'l geezer]

An older post but helping info. When you talk about the silver springs there are 2 sets. One larger than the other. Trying to get mine set up, but what size silver spring to use. Thanks for any help.

 

[watermelon]

wow...cant remember

i ended up locking out my distributor for an efi conversion


watermelon

 

[RemCharger]

wow...cant remember

i ended up locking out my distributor for an efi conversion


watermelon

Wow 10 years later and replied promptly! This is what members should strive to be!

 

[Dan64]

The Pro billet Msd comes with 2 heavy silver springs and the blue bushing installed. Most old school guys throw the 2 light sliver springs in but often they are too light and can cause your timing to move around at idle which will make your idle rpm move up and down at will. You want to put your timing light on it at idle and hit the accelerator pump which will want to make the motor bog down , if the timing moves down when you do this the springs are too light. You want the timing to stay rock solid at idle and start to increase just off idle say like 1200 ish and be all in by 26-2800 ish. Your combo will decide how much initial and total timing it wants. With the Pro billet and the black bushing you can go as low as 18* of mechanical advance ( you can source 10* and 14* bushings from 4secondsflat.com). My combo wants 19-20* initial and no more than 33* total so i set the total to 33* and used a 14* bushing, i also used the light silver and one blue spring. If you don't have enough initial timing the rpm's will be down so that means that you have to rise them using the idle speed screw and this can cause you to expose too much of the transfer slots causing your car to run even worse.

 

[O'l geezer]

Thanks for the info. I had the total timing set too high. put 1 heavy silver spring and 1 blue, and the black bushing. set the idle at 15 and when i went to wot it went to 33 deg total.
I have been chaceing a miss at 5K when I launch at wot. I have done everything that the racers have told to do but nothing has fixed it.

 

[ksurfer2]

Thanks for the info. I had the total timing set too high. put 1 heavy silver spring and 1 blue, and the black bushing. set the idle at 15 and when i went to wot it went to 33 deg total.
I have been chaceing a miss at 5K when I launch at wot. I have done everything that the racers have told to do but nothing has fixed it.

I am running a MSD 6AL box, Pro Billet Distributor, and MSD coil. I also found myself chasing a high RPM miss. What finally solved it for me was changing the trigger wire from the box to the distributor to a shielded cable MSD part number 8862. Once I made this change, the high RPM miss went away.

 

[O'l geezer]

Thank you for the reply. I will check into that 8862 cable.
I'm running the same set up, MSD digital 6AL, Pro dist. msd coil.
Tks again for the info..