440 kick down question

[QOTHL]

I've got about 2000 miles on a rebuild/restore #'s 440 in a 69 Charger. I have had some carburetor issues and haven't really beaten the piss out of it yet. Yesterday I took it out and wound it up to 90+ a few times, ran great, which is a relief and a thrill. Coming off of a traffic circle I hit the gas and it kicked down with an awesome acceleration. Later, I hit it hard and it accelerated just fine but no kick down.

My question is if there is any rhyme or reason as to when or how this works? Sorry for the stupid question. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[74gtx]

Hi! The speed you are going will affect the trans kicking down to a lower gear. For instance if you are above 30 and below 40 it probably won’t kick down to first gear. Of course tear end gearing will help determine the speed it kicks down. Your results may vary. Have fun! Mike

 

[Nate S]

A couple things. First, it wasn’t until 70 or so that “part throttle downshift” came on the scene. That means they upshifted but wouldn’t go back down unless you stuffed it to the floor. Second, the most commonly misadjusted thing on a Mopar is that linkage. It should be set to be bottomed out at wide open throttle. Have someone stuff it to the floor (not running) and hold it there. Confirm it’s wide open. Then adjust the linkage so that one more turn and it would keep the throttle from opening all the way. After that it should kick down reliably. If you’re going too fast it won’t drop down to some gears. No big surprise there.

 

[beanhead]

...haven't really beaten the piss out of it yet...

Well there's your problem right there!!

The service manual for your year will show you how to adjust the kickdown linkage. You need the lever at the trans all the way back at full throttle, yet have just a bit of play at rest. It sounds like it was working, then not, like maybe it wasn't locked down everywhere and maybe got a little out of adjustment. Get the throttle fully open, then adjust the linkage to hold the trans lever all the way back. Drive it and see how you like it....You can fine-tune it from there, just make sure that lever's still going all the way back at WOT.

 

[turbine68rt]

A couple things. First, it wasn’t until 70 or so that “part throttle downshift” came on the scene. That means they upshifted but wouldn’t go back down unless you stuffed it to the floor. Second, the most commonly misadjusted thing on a Mopar is that linkage. It should be set to be bottomed out at wide open throttle. Have someone stuff it to the floor (not running) and hold it there. Confirm it’s wide open. Then adjust the linkage so that one more turn and it would keep the throttle from opening all the way. After that it should kick down reliably. If you’re going too fast it won’t drop down to some gears. No big surprise there.

Not exactly. The part throttle kickdown was designed to allow kickdown at less than full throttle, unlike the earlier vb which required almost full throttle. I think that started around 71. For the multiple rod setups hold the trans lever fully forward while having a 3/16 pin inserted in the provided holes holding the bellcrank in a fixed position. Adjust the vertical rod so it lines up with the ball end on the bellcrank. Remove pin then adjust the carb rod with slight rearward pressure (with no return spring). The rear of the slot should just contact the carb pin without pulling it forward manually.

 

[QOTHL]

Not exactly. The part throttle kickdown was designed to allow kickdown at less than full throttle, unlike the earlier vb which required almost full throttle. I think that started around 71. For the multiple rod setups hold the trans lever fully forward while having a 3/16 pin inserted in the provided holes holding the bellcrank in a fixed position. Adjust the vertical rod so it lines up with the ball end on the bellcrank. Remove pin then adjust the carb rod with slight rearward pressure (with no return spring). The rear of the slot should just contact the carb pin without pulling it forward manually.

Yeah, I'm glad you said that because I have another 69 Charger that had an aftermarket linkage that we converted back to factory and that's what it does, kicks it down. It may work better in that car because the mechanic who installed it is better than the one who did the one mentioned above and this other 69 has a shift kit in it which may also make a difference. I've also beaten the piss out of it a LOT more and have had it longer. And yes, it does kick down at less than full throttle. By the way, I like the factory linkage much better than the aftermarket "pretty" one, it works better.

 

[104thLRSD]

Sorry Im late to the conversation, but I had no kick-down either. I followed the service manual procedures and adjusted the linkage accordingly. Now it works flawlessly.

 

[Wietse]

Not exactly. The part throttle kickdown was designed to allow kickdown at less than full throttle, unlike the earlier vb which required almost full throttle. I think that started around 71. For the multiple rod setups hold the trans lever fully forward while having a 3/16 pin inserted in the provided holes holding the bellcrank in a fixed position. Adjust the vertical rod so it lines up with the ball end on the bellcrank. Remove pin then adjust the carb rod with slight rearward pressure (with no return spring). The rear of the slot should just contact the carb pin without pulling it forward manually.

Not to rob the thread, but just curiosity.
So you guys say that the auto transmissions from before '70-'71 only downshift when flooring the pedal?
Only with stock style transmissions i understand, guess these shift kits will allow a part throttle downshift?

 

[turbine68rt]

It's not the shift kit that allows for the ptk but rather the added module type valve. Some pre-71's can be made to utilize the ptk valve. I think 68-70. The shift kits basically determine how firm you want the shifts to be. TF1-mainly towing and street. TF2-street/race shift quality.

 

[Dipstick]

The FSM has charts that show the speed that the transmission will kickdown or not.

 

[QOTHL]

Sorry Im late to the conversation, but I had no kick-down either. I followed the service manual procedures and adjusted the linkage accordingly. Now it works flawlessly.

Thanks, late or not! The car in question works, I'm just not sure how or what I do activates it.

 

[QOTHL]

Not to rob the thread, but just curiosity.
So you guys say that the auto transmissions from before '70-'71 only downshift when flooring the pedal?
Only with stock style transmissions i understand, guess these shift kits will allow a part throttle downshift?

I'm not sure what that guy is saying but I've had the kick down work without flooring it in the car that started the thread. The other car with the shift kit is the same make, year, model, engine and trans. I've rarely floored it either because I don't really need to.

 

[wyrmrider]

part throttle kd is in the valve bodies which mostly intrechange
us the TF-2 kit you have a wider range of adjustments

 

[Wietse]

I'm not sure what that guy is saying but I've had the kick down work without flooring it in the car that started the thread. The other car with the shift kit is the same make, year, model, engine and trans. I've rarely floored it either because I don't really need to.

I wondered about what Nate S & turbine68rt were saying in regards to the part throttle kick down was only available since '70-'71.
So i wondered about mine, early '69 transmission will do a part throttle kick down or not.
From what they mentioned, an unmodified '69 model you will have to floor the pedal to make it down shift and it will not do a part throttle down shift.

It's not the shift kit that allows for the ptk but rather the added module type valve. Some pre-71's can be made to utilize the ptk valve. I think 68-70. The shift kits basically determine how firm you want the shifts to be. TF1-mainly towing and street. TF2-street/race shift quality.

I was under the impression a shift kit would allow the part throttle down shift, but apparantly i was wrong so i need to be on the lookout to make that work with the right valve body/kit.

I'm not sure what that guy is saying but I've had the kick down work without flooring it in the car that started the thread. The other car with the shift kit is the same make, year, model, engine and trans. I've rarely floored it either because I don't really need to.

Seems your already has been modified, or perhaps is a later model valve body/transmission.

 

[QOTHL]

I wondered about what Nate S & turbine68rt were saying in regards to the part throttle kick down was only available since '70-'71.
So i wondered about mine, early '69 transmission will do a part throttle kick down or not.
From what they mentioned, an unmodified '69 model you will have to floor the pedal to make it down shift and it will not do a part throttle down shift.



I was under the impression a shift kit would allow the part throttle down shift, but apparantly i was wrong so i need to be on the lookout to make that work with the right valve body/kit.



Seems your already has been modified, or perhaps is a later model valve body/transmission.

The build date on the R/T SE is Sept of 68.

 

[Nate S]

The build date on the R/T SE is Sept of 68.

The 727’s and other auto trannys often pooped out and were replaced by a rebuilt one the tranny shop had on the shelf. Physically a huge range is interchangeable so it’s not uncommon for an early car to get a later transmission, wrong torque converter etc.

I’ll try to find a link to the Chrysler Torqueflite 1973 service bulletin. Very informative. Goes through changes of each year etc. The old ones only kicked down when you planted it, or very close. The really old ones you could even push start. Anyway, according to Chrysler themselves, ‘71 is the first year of the part throttle downshift.

 

[Nate S]

https://www.e-bodies.org/Resources/TSB/Torque_Flite_Transmission.pdf

 

[QOTHL]

https://www.e-bodies.org/Resources/TSB/Torque_Flite_Transmission.pdf

Thanks for the help. This is a #'s engine and trans. Next time I drive it I'll test it.

 

[QOTHL]

A couple things. First, it wasn’t until 70 or so that “part throttle downshift” came on the scene. That means they upshifted but wouldn’t go back down unless you stuffed it to the floor. Second, the most commonly misadjusted thing on a Mopar is that linkage. It should be set to be bottomed out at wide open throttle. Have someone stuff it to the floor (not running) and hold it there. Confirm it’s wide open. Then adjust the linkage so that one more turn and it would keep the throttle from opening all the way. After that it should kick down reliably. If you’re going too fast it won’t drop down to some gears. No big surprise there.

Ok, call me a dumbass, I deserve it. When I kicked it down about a week ago I didn't think I floored it but must have. When I tried it on the bypass near my house, it didn't, and I hadn't floored it either. I took it out today and every time I floored it, it performed great. So you must be right about the years. The other Charger I mentioned is a 69 and I have the #'s engine and trans but remembered that's not what's in it. That will kick down partial throttle and the 440 engine and trans are dated after 71 - hard to read but not 69. So that explains a lot. Whoever put that engine in that car probably wanted the later trans for the PTK feature. Just a guess.

 

[myk r sanchez]

Is the PTK something to think about fitting into 70 and earlier cars?