833 professionally rebuilt, 2nd gear popping out occasionally

[biomedtechguy]

I will be sending my 18 spline a833 back to have this problem resolved unless someone can suggest a fix for this problem. Not every time, but often enough 2nd gear pops out. Seems to happen under "low stress" conditions. Never has happened when wfo on the throttle, tried "on-and-off" the gas pedal expecting the "off" cycle to make it pop out. Typically it is during a turn where I am barely or not at all on the gas, or when barely on the gas going straight. Other than the dreaded worn 2nd gear senario, what else can be the problem? Shift rod for 1st/2nd adjusted 3 times, each time progressively "pushing" the 2nd gear dog further into the engagement direction for 2nd gear...final adjustment was the opposite of that in that I used a shifter alignment tool pushed through the holes in the shifter in neutral and adjusted ALL shift rods so none of the collars binded when I put them in the holes.still having the problem under light throttle.

 

[747mopar]

Never had an 833 so I may be of no use but when I have possible linkage problems I will shift them into the problematic gear and then remove that rod from the shifter arm on the tranny and see whether or not it is fully engaging. Sounds like your on the right track, is there anything in the car that could be interfering with the shifter, console, floor, seat, etc?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Never had an 833 so I may be of no use but when I have possible linkage problems I will shift them into the problematic gear and then remove that rod from the shifter arm on the tranny and see whether or not it is fully engaging. Sounds like your on the right track, is there anything in the car that could be interfering with the shifter, console, floor, seat, etc?

Thanks. Regarding the fully engaging question, all I can say is that I progressively adjusted the shift rod in the direction of engaging 2nd gear with no net beneficial result. The last adjustment I made in the engagement direction actually made it difficult to get from reverse into the neutral gate and difficult to go from 1st or 2nd into 3rd or 4th as far as crossing over through the neutral gate. So I started over with all linkage rods using the shifter alignment tool (in neutral, of course) and realigned all shift rods with no binding where they go into the holes. I can't imagine anything physically impeding the shifter or linkage

 

[Cranky]

Were the gears replaced with new ones? Check the dog teeth that engage the synchro slider gear, if the teeth are worn at a very very slight angle this may well be the cause. When the gear is engaged, the ever so slight angle or ramp would allow the slider gear to slide off of 2nd gear.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Were the gears replaced with new ones? Check the dog teeth that engage the synchro slider gear, if the teeth are worn at a very very slight angle this may well be the cause. When the gear is engaged, the ever so slight angle or ramp would allow the slider gear to slide off of 2nd gear.

I had slick shift synchronizers and sliders installed. 3rd gear (which hadn't been causing me any problems) and the input shaft was deemed marginal so I had them replaced. I can't imagine if 2nd gear was worn or marginal that it wouldn't have been recommended to be replaced as well.

 

[dstryr]

Were the gears replaced with new ones? Check the dog teeth that engage the synchro slider gear, if the teeth are worn at a very very slight angle this may well be the cause. When the gear is engaged, the ever so slight angle or ramp would allow the slider gear to slide off of 2nd gear.

This, same thing was happening with my 4sp until I rebuilt it.

 

[GTX MATT]

You have a hurst shifter, right? Is it a Comp Plus? Have you adjusted the stop bolt for second/fourth gear if you have one?

 

[biomedtechguy]

Yes, Hurst Comp plus, no, I haven't adjusted the stops. How would that affect the 2nd gear popping out problem? Thanks!

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You have a hurst shifter, right? Is it a Comp Plus? Have you adjusted the stop bolt for second/fourth gear if you have one?

I am going to check the stops now. I guess if the stop for 1st/2nd is set wrong it could keep the shifter from engaging 2nd properly. Regardless of the outcome, thanks. I will follow-up soon.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Yes, Hurst Comp plus, no, I haven't adjusted the stops. How would that affect the 2nd gear popping out problem? Thanks!

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I am going to check the stops now. I guess if the stop for 1st/2nd is set wrong it could keep the shifter from engaging 2nd properly. Regardless of the outcome, thanks. I will follow-up soon.

Well, dang it! I backed the stops out to make sure that they were not keeping the shifter from completely engaging. That's NOT the problem :-( A mechanic buddy who helped me (or I helped him) install my Hurst/Brewers Comp Plus shifter and linkage is going to check it out in a few minutes on a lift. If THAT doesn't get it, unless the forum has additional suggestions, I am going to have to send the transmission back to be checked. I'll follow up after we get it on the lift...Brewers did not do the trans work, but I have been assured that the company that did will get it right.

 

[cryplydog]

hi Biomed, you didn't say if you had the early or late side cover interlock mechanism, the early side cover [desired] has a ball/spring detent lock kind of like the T-10's and the later interlock type [70 and up I think] was a compliance thing that locked the whole damn thing out when the key was removed. anyhow, the ball/spring and shifter shaft detent could be the culprit of letting it slide out of gear when just petering around at idle at a corner or such. I've seen them locked up, rusty and frozen and just plain worn out/dead spring. just have to pull the side cover to check. also you didn't say if shifter is new or old, I have seen shifters so worn out that no kind of adjustment could get you through the neutral gate without hang up or catching another gear, so you really cant tell about an old shifter without complete disassembly and checking the main shaft and the lever diameters. you can pretty much tell buy looking at the disassembly. good luck. CRYPLYDOG

 

[Cornpatch MO]

No one has mentioned bell housing run-out. If that is not in tolerence, it can cause tranny to pop out oif gear. Also check input shaft to pilot bearing fitment. These things could cause a problem not related to the tranny re-build................................MO

 

[jimt1971rr]

I had a similar problem with my 3-4 popping out. Tried adjustments and just couldn't get it to stay in both. Finally, Moved the shift rod from the outer hole on the transmission shift lever to the inner one, closer to pivot. It shorted the throw and solved the problem. I don't know which of the two positions you are using, but if you are using the outer hole, try moving to the inner hole and see if this resolves the problem.

 

[biomedtechguy]

No one has mentioned bell housing run-out. If that is not in tolerence, it can cause tranny to pop out oif gear. Also check input shaft to pilot bearing fitment. These things could cause a problem not related to the tranny re-build................................MO

I just watched a YouTube video about bellhousing runout...I didn't check it, and I am sure after I gave up due to having trouble getting the transmission in that the mechanics who did the installation didn't check bellhousing runout either. If it's out, my understanding is that I have to replace the dowl pins with the appropriate offset ones...oh joy!! Either way, it looks like I will have to pull it, and I know from the video that having the bellhousing offset wrong can wear out the input shaft bearing so :-( but thanks! I guess pulling the trans and checking the runout is next. Shifter is new a year ago. Dogs for trans only have one hole. I bought the entire shifter setup (except the chrome Pistol Grip assembly) from Brewers new a year or so ago. As far as input shaft to pilot bearing (not bushing in the flywheel, which I changed out to a new one) I have to believe that the 833 specialist that did the work has that correct.

 

[Cranky]

Not that many check the run outs on a bell housing but yes, it's a good idea to do it especially if you're having problems. An automatic transmission case should be checked too but how many have the proper tools to do it!? When you get back into the case of an auto, you're far enough away from the engine that indicator sags becomes a problem so the best way to check run outs is while the block is out and standing on it's nose then you don't have to worry so much about indicator sag. Some who are really serious (****?) will even check an empty 4 speed case to make sure it's in alignment with the crank too....

 

[biomedtechguy]

Ok. So here I am a year later. Sent the transmission back to Passon a few months ago. Got it back with some more new parts, got the old existing dowels out (OMG!) checked bellhousing runout, put 1 RobbMc .07 offset dowel with the "hump" (thicker part) up in at the 3 o'clock position to raise the bellhousing and 1 new stock Mopar 0° offset at the 10 o'clock position. Rechecked the runout all ok. Got the trans in. 2nd gear pops out under light decel.....Adjusted the 1/2 gear rod to "push more" in the direction of 2nd (which "pulls less" on 1st) 2nd gear pops out. Tomorrow morning after I wash the car I will try lengthening the pin on the rod that goes into the shift lever some more than I did 1 time today (5 turns). I am really frustrated with this.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

I will be sending my 18 spline a833 back to have this problem resolved unless someone can suggest a fix for this problem. Not every time, but often enough 2nd gear pops out. Seems to happen under "low stress" conditions. Never has happened when wfo on the throttle, tried "on-and-off" the gas pedal expecting the "off" cycle to make it pop out. Typically it is during a turn where I am barely or not at all on the gas, or when barely on the gas going straight. Other than the dreaded worn 2nd gear senario, what else can be the problem? Shift rod for 1st/2nd adjusted 3 times, each time progressively "pushing" the 2nd gear dog further into the engagement direction for 2nd gear...final adjustment was the opposite of that in that I used a shifter alignment tool pushed through the holes in the shifter in neutral and adjusted ALL shift rods so none of the collars binded when I put them in the holes.still having the problem under light throttle.

Acts just like my 23 spline, but my problem is with 1 st gear. Also. even tho my synchros look good, I have to granny shift to keep from grinding gears...............................MO

 

[Cornpatch MO]

Ok. So here I am a year later. Sent the transmission back to Passon a few months ago. Got it back with some more new parts, got the old existing dowels out (OMG!) checked bellhousing runout, put 1 RobbMc .07 offset dowel with the "hump" (thicker part) up in at the 3 o'clock position to raise the bellhousing and 1 new stock Mopar 0° offset at the 10 o'clock position. Rechecked the runout all ok. Got the trans in. 2nd gear pops out under light decel.....Adjusted the 1/2 gear rod to "push more" in the direction of 2nd (which "pulls less" on 1st) 2nd gear pops out. Tomorrow morning after I wash the car I will try lengthening the pin on the rod that goes into the shift lever some more than I did 1 time today (5 turns). I am really frustrated with this.

5 turns sounds like a lot. I feel your frustration, I hate to spend a lot of money to have a "pro" repair something and then it still does not work. High shipping costs makes it even worse. What does Passon have to say about the problem they haven't fixed? Keep us informed........................MO

 

[Daves69]

I'd almost be tempted to disconnect all the shifter rods, verify the trans is in neutral, manually click the trans into 2nd, throw the floor jack in the car, try to drive it in 2nd with no other influence on the trans.

 

[Cornpatch MO]

I'd almost be tempted to disconnect all the shifter rods, verify the trans is in neutral, manually click the trans into 2nd, throw the floor jack in the car, try to drive it in 2nd with no other influence on the trans.

interesting idea, I may try that on mine, as I thought the weight of my long shifter handle could be my problem.............................MO

 

[dvw]

What was done to convert it to "slick shift"? Back in the day slick shift had no dogs or springs. They would not stay in gear on decel. Looking at the pictures on Passons web sight I see no dogs or springs in the kit with every other tooth removed from the sliders. What surprises me is that it ever stays in gear on decel.
Doug