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A-833 4 speed transmission diagnosis

bigfishthemovie

bigfishthemovie

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I have a first gen Charger 361 4 speed that just started whining and rattling. The whine stops when the clutch is pressed in, it rattles in first gear and less in second. it is also now sometimes difficult to put into reverse. I think its the transmission and am willing to rebuild, I just got the A833 rebuild book from Jamie Passon. Before I get into the rebuild I am wondering how to diagnose it further. It is a new problem that happened after parking on a steep hill, I got it home and have changed the fluid but the noises came back after a few minute test drive. I had the clutch replaced last year and it only has maybe 500 miles on it. I'm wondering if it is possible that the noises are coming from the clutch or a clutch fluid issue. Thanks
 
Shifter alignment. .....and the pilot bushing could be flogged out or loose and spinning.
 
pnora said:
Does it make noise in neutral with the clutch released?
Click to expand...
pnora said:
Does it make noise in neutral with the clutch released?
Click to expand...
Yes it makes the whining sound in neutral at idle with clutch released. It’s much worse when driving after about 5 minutes. What I’ve noticed since it started is that it drives well before it starts to make a lot of noise. Fortunately I haven’t been far from home when it starts
 
bigfishthemovie said:
Don’t know yet, I’m going to upgrade my jack and stands later this week for better access. The rattle does sound like wobbling gears though.
Click to expand...
It could sound like anything you think of. Over 50 years ago, a car came into my garage with a "transmission" noise, was simply a broken mount. Check those first.
 
bigfishthemovie said:
Yes it makes the whining sound in neutral at idle with clutch released. It’s much worse when driving after about 5 minutes. What I’ve noticed since it started is that it drives well before it starts to make a lot of noise. Fortunately I haven’t been far from home when it starts
Click to expand...
So in neutral and your foot off the clutch do you hear the noise?
 
Here's my opinion about 4-speeds ...

Since you have it out anyway .. you pull the cltch and bellhousing, remove the existing pilot bearing in the crank and replace it. to remove you pack it with grease and pound in a large bolt or wooden dowel - which compresses the grease and pushes out the bushing. Do I think the bushing is your issue? NO. But do it anyway.

With the trans out, tear it down and replace both the front and rear ball bearings. Check the steel syncro teeth for chips and wear - virtually every trans will have chipped and worn teeth. Replacement is EXPENSIVE - clean up sharp edges with a small whetstone. Replace all the syncro rings. Replace the countershaft thrust washers (check the clearance). Unless damage is obvious, DO NOT replace the roller bearings. The chances of these wearing at all is virtually nil! The same applies to both the countershaft and the reverse shaft. Clean all parts well. Use wheel bearing grease to hold all the rollers in place for reassembly. Replace the tailstock bushing and seal. IF you remove the gears from the main shaft, replace the circlips in the same grooves you took them out of - these are specific to those grooves. You can no longer buy the various thicknesses for replacement so use the proper tool so you don't wreck them. Reassemble the trans with new gaskets and seals.

Properly align the shifter mechanism when you reinstall.

For some nifty mods - consult the Direct Connection race manual.
 
bigfishthemovie said:
I have a first gen Charger 361 4 speed that just started whining and rattling. The whine stops when the clutch is pressed in, it rattles in first gear and less in second. it is also now sometimes difficult to put into reverse. I think its the transmission and am willing to rebuild, I just got the A833 rebuild book from Jamie Passon. Before I get into the rebuild I am wondering how to diagnose it further. It is a new problem that happened after parking on a steep hill, I got it home and have changed the fluid but the noises came back after a few minute test drive. I had the clutch replaced last year and it only has maybe 500 miles on it. I'm wondering if it is possible that the noises are coming from the clutch or a clutch fluid issue. Thanks
Click to expand...
Input shaft and cluster gear turn anytime the clutch is let out, and even in neutral, so I would look at those bearings during tear down, front bearing, the bearing inside the input shaft, and the needle bearings stacked in the cluster gear.
 
Do you have some free play in the clutch adjustment? If so, at idle it should not be the TO bearing making noise as it’s just sitting still. Since you mention 2nd gear I’m assuming it makes noise underway with the clutch engaged - which would rule out the pilot bushing as the crank and input are locked together when moving in gear. That sort of leaves maybe the input bearing going bad. I’m pretty sure the gears are not wobbling around unless some of the needle bearings have disintegrated. And if that’s the case the transmission would be clashing between gears and jumping out of gear, etc.

But you probably are going to have to pull the transmission out to figure it out for certain.
 
WileE said:
What is the condition of all your mount
AR67GTX said:
Do you have some free play in the clutch adjustment? If so, at idle it should not be the TO bearing making noise as it’s just sitting still. Since you mention 2nd gear I’m assuming it makes noise underway with the clutch engaged - which would rule out the pilot bushing as the crank and input are locked together when moving in gear. That sort of leaves maybe the input bearing going bad. I’m pretty sure the gears are not wobbling around unless some of the needle bearings have disintegrated. And if that’s the case the transmission would be clashing between gears and jumping out of gear, etc.

But you probably are going to have to pull the transmission out to figure it out for certain.
Click to expand...
Thanks, the clutch is pretty dialed in. the transmission is is not clashing between gears or jumping out. the car is pretty low and I have trouble getting under the vehicle with the gear I have but I will be purchasing a new jack and stands after this holiday is over.
Click to expand...
 
gkent said:
Here's my opinion about 4-speeds ...

Since you have it out anyway .. you pull the cltch and bellhousing, remove the existing pilot bearing in the crank and replace it. to remove you pack it with grease and pound in a large bolt or wooden dowel - which compresses the grease and pushes out the bushing. Do I think the bushing is your issue? NO. But do it anyway.

With the trans out, tear it down and replace both the front and rear ball bearings. Check the steel syncro teeth for chips and wear - virtually every trans will have chipped and worn teeth. Replacement is EXPENSIVE - clean up sharp edges with a small whetstone. Replace all the syncro rings. Replace the countershaft thrust washers (check the clearance). Unless damage is obvious, DO NOT replace the roller bearings. The chances of these wearing at all is virtually nil! The same applies to both the countershaft and the reverse shaft. Clean all parts well. Use wheel bearing grease to hold all the rollers in place for reassembly. Replace the tailstock bushing and seal. IF you remove the gears from the main shaft, replace the circlips in the same grooves you took them out of - these are specific to those grooves. You can no longer buy the various thicknesses for replacement so use the proper tool so you don't wreck them. Reassemble the trans with new gaskets and seals.

Properly align the shifter mechanism when you reinstall.

For some nifty mods - consult the Direct Connection race manual.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the detailed reply, you make some great points.
 
Rebelrouser said:
Input shaft and cluster gear turn anytime the clutch is let out, and even in neutral, so I would look at those bearings during tear down, front bearing, the bearing inside the input shaft, and the needle bearings stacked in the cluster gear.
Click to expand...
Awesome thanks
 
bigfishthemovie said:
I have a first gen Charger 361 4 speed that just started whining and rattling. The whine stops when the clutch is pressed in, it rattles in first gear and less in second. it is also now sometimes difficult to put into reverse. I think its the transmission and am willing to rebuild, I just got the A833 rebuild book from Jamie Passon. Before I get into the rebuild I am wondering how to diagnose it further. It is a new problem that happened after parking on a steep hill, I got it home and have changed the fluid but the noises came back after a few minute test drive. I had the clutch replaced last year and it only has maybe 500 miles on it. I'm wondering if it is possible that the noises are coming from the clutch or a clutch fluid issue. Thanks
Click to expand...
If you didn't have noise before this new problem started, it is possible the noises could be coming from the clutch.
 
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