A/C condensor

[Turbobus]

I’m an old guy with old thinking, bigger is better?, I upgraded my factory a/c system with, I think Vintage Air, and wanted to know if I should use the supplied condenser or a two row condenser from a 77 Cordoba that I bought many moons ago? I know heat transfer technology has come a long way and the refrigerant changed but it’s hard to let go of old ways of thinking! Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

[PrescottJeff]

Condenser technology has changed by tons since 1977. I’m very old school like you. I’ve been an automotive technician for many years. I would definitely use the new part that came with the kit

 

[RJRENTON]

I’m an old guy with old thinking, bigger is better?, I upgraded my factory a/c system with, I think Vintage Air, and wanted to know if I should use the supplied condenser or a two row condenser from a 77 Cordoba that I bought many moons ago? I know heat transfer technology has come a long way and the refrigerant changed but it’s hard to let go of old ways of thinking! Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Thermodynamics has not changed.....the science is still the same. However, materials and refrigerant's have. More surface area of the the condenser (heat exchanger) allows for lower operating pressures for a given air inlet temperature. The refrigerant's have different specific heat characteristics (condensing temperatures and pressures...R12 vs R134A vs R1234YF) in conjunction with evaporator (air flow, pressure, superheat, surface area) effect the operation. Since you've already spent the $$$ for your system, use what's been designed to be compatible....why would you "re-invent" the wheel, by introducing an unknown quantity (a different condenser) ....then wonder WHY the system doesn't seem to work???? Plus, a different condenser may void the warranty on your system parts. Remember to evacuate to REMOVE moisture b4 recharging.........just my opinion of course.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Turbobus]

Condenser technology has changed by tons since 1977. I’m very old school like you. I’ve been an automotive technician for many years. I would definitely use the new part that came with the kit

Thanks Jeff, I think I will use the supplied condenser. I really just wanted to know if anyone had experimented with the two to prove or disprove “ the old guy theory”
One day they will drag me kicking and screaming into the 21st century!
My Dad lived in Prescott for many years before his death, I love Prescott!, again, thanks for the input!

 

[Turbobus]

Thermodynamics has not changed.....the science is still the same. However, materials and refrigerant's have. More surface area of the the condenser (heat exchanger) allows for lower operating pressures for a given air inlet temperature. The refrigerant's have different specific heat characteristics (condensing temperatures and pressures...R12 vs R134A vs R1234YF) in conjunction with evaporator (air flow, pressure, sperheat, surface area) effect the operation. Since you've already spent the $$$ for your system, use what's been designed to be compatible....why would you "re-invent" the wheel, by introducing an unknown quantity (a different condenser) ....then wonder WHY the system doesn't seem to work???? Plus, a different condenser may void the warranty on your system parts. Remember to evacuate to REMOVE moisture b4 recharging.........just my opinion of course.....
BOB RENTON

Ok

 

[RJRENTON]

Thanks Jeff, I think I will use the supplied condenser. I really just wanted to know if anyone had experimented with the two to prove or disprove “ the old guy theory”
One day they will drag me kicking and screaming into the 21st century!
My Dad lived in Prescott for many years before his death, I love Prescott!, again, thanks for the input!

The concept is called "LEARNING" ......the "old guy theory" or the hunt 'n peck method is obsolete.....and can be expensive......
BOB RENTON

 

[Turbobus]

The concept is called "LEARNING" ......the "old guy theory" or the hunt 'n peck method is obsolete.....and can be expensive......
BOB RENTON

People are at risk anytime they open up or ask questions on the internet,,, I thought I could avoid some of the BS by self deprecation. I was brought up to be a sheep, right up to the point where the wolf reared it’s head,,, In the words of Bill Burr,,,,, go F,, yourself!!!

 

[WileE]

People are at risk anytime they open up or ask questions on the internet,,, I thought I could avoid some of the BS by self deprecation. I was brought up to be a sheep, right up to the point where the wolf reared it’s head,,, In the words of Bill Burr,,,,, go F,, yourself!!!

Hey, I've been playing with cars 50+ years, and I learn something every day. It's remembering it, that's the problem

 

[Turbobus]

Hey, I've been playing with cars 50+ years, and I learn something every day. It's remembering it, that's the problem

Ain’t that the truth!
I still have a lot to offer but not going to be steam rolled by someone on the internet who has no social etiquette! Sorry people had to see it,,,,,

 

[493 Mike]

The whole problem with learning is: When you know it all-you die!
Mike

 

[Turbobus]

Mike, sad but true! I’m surprised,,,,,,

 

[Turbobus]

The concept is called "LEARNING" ......the "old guy theory" or the hunt 'n peck method is obsolete.....and can be expensive......
BOB RENTON

**** you! You arrogant bastard!!!! You’re the reason people refrain from asking questions. Hope you’re happy. You have reached your goal, alienating hobbyists.

 

[RJRENTON]

**** you! You arrogant bastard!!!! You’re the reason people refrain from asking questions. Hope you’re happy. You have reached your goal, alienating hobbyists.

Being narrow minded is not an excuse.....it's an attitude....if one does not understand, adding profanity just exemplifies my point.....btw...thanks for the compliment......
BOB RENTON

 

[Demonic]

wanted to know if I should use the supplied condenser or a two row condenser from a 77 Cordoba that I bought many moons ago?

I could bore ya'll to death with talk about heat transfer and vapor pressure of various refrigerants, but the choice between the two is this:

( this applies to radiators, heater cores and everything else you can't see inside of ) -

Your kit condenser is new, presumably clean and free of aluminum oxidation inside. Your 77 Cordoba is an unknown quantity, it could be full of semi-oxidized aluminum. ( is it used? )You could flush it out with Brakleen or something similar, but it is likely a round tube condenser, vs an oval tube condenser. You may not get everything out.

The inside of any refrigerant system wants to be Larry Sheppard clean - like surgically clean. Immaculate, free of any rust, dirt or foreign material.

It likely holds more refrigerant, which actually may not be a good thing, if the system overall vapor pressure is raised, the evaporator will be warmer, and able to absorb less heat. Bigger is not always better. Small refrigerant systems are easily overcharged by hobbyist mechanics.

Demonic
industrial/commercial HVAC tech

 

[RJRENTON]

Thanks....as I use to do heat transfer calculations and designed high temperature gas to gas, gas to liquid and liquid to liquid heat exchangers ..... specifically in high temperature waste gas heat recovery to process preheating with the recovered heat, you are correct.....the heat transfer media, pressures, temperatures, velocities, surface areas and gases (or heat transfer media) are absolute considerations that must be taken into account......
BOB RENTON

 

[Turbobus]

I could bore ya'll to death with talk about heat transfer and vapor pressure of various refrigerants, but the choice between the two is this:

( this applies to radiators, heater cores and everything else you can't see inside of ) -

Your kit condenser is new, presumably clean and free of aluminum oxidation inside. Your 77 Cordoba is an unknown quantity, it could be full of semi-oxidized aluminum. ( is it used? )You could flush it out with Brakleen or something similar, but it is likely a round tube condenser, vs an oval tube condenser. You may not get everything out.

The inside of any refrigerant system wants to be Larry Sheppard clean - like surgically clean. Immaculate, free of any rust, dirt or foreign material.

It likely holds more refrigerant, which actually may not be a good thing, if the system overall vapor pressure is raised, the evaporator will be warmer, and able to absorb less heat. Bigger is not always better. Small refrigerant systems are easily overcharged by hobbyist mechanics.

Demonic
industrial/commercial HVAC tech

Thanks for the input Demonic, definitely have decided to use the one supplied with the kit, just really wanted to see if anyone had done a comparison or was displeased with the obviously smaller condenser. What got me thinking was a semi famous youtuber who advised using a larger condenser because, according to him, the supplied condenser was too small for cooling the discharge. Again, thanks for your thoughtful insight.

 

[Turbobus]

Being narrow minded is not an excuse.....it's an attitude....if one does not understand, adding profanity just exemplifies my point.....btw...thanks for the compliment......
BOB RENTON

Being socially inept is not an excuse either, it’s a weakness to cover for low self esteem and the fact that you consider it a compliment speaks volumes.

 

[Turbobus]

Being socially inept is not an excuse either, it’s a weakness to cover for low self esteem and the fact that you consider it a compliment speaks volumes.

,,,,,,and a couple other things Bob, thread #15,, do you really think people care that you studied the transfer between air to gas, gas to gas, heat to turd, turd to diamond, or whatever words you can string together? I’ll not list the things I’ve done or accomplished because it’s not in my nature, it’s not relevant. What you wrote , well, that just drives home my point.
Now, I know you will respond because that’s what your type do and to to be fair I will read your reply but I’m done with this thread and you will consider yourself the winner in this battle of wits. You’re probably very intelligent but it doesn’t excuse poor behavior, same with me, curse words aren’t always the appropriate measure.

 

[Demonic]

the supplied condenser was too small for cooling the discharge.

Well, since you mentioned it-

I have seen some aftermarket kits that are not as well designed as OE Chrysler systems. In a perfect world, you would have a 7-8* condenser approach. That is liquid line temp ( leaving condenser line, heading to the filter-dryer) minus entering ambient air. Here's the thing though, you need a honkin' big fan to simulate the vehicle going down the road. Temps and as a result the pressures vary with airflow.

It would be awesome if there was an EPR valve replacement for 134a. If you could regulate to a constant 33-34 psi in the evap, you could hold a nice temp. Mostly it's the "universal" kits that seem to have the most trouble. Chrysler had well designed piping/hose setups, especially 69 and later. Watch your hose routing, avoid any sharp metal that could wear a hole, exhaust manifolds, etc. Of course, lightly oil the O-rings and any aluminum threads and make sure there's no leaks.

 

[Tony Tee]

I'm using a Harrison v5 compressor which has a epr valve just like the v2 has. And the largest condenser I could find that fits. I haven't run it yet so I hope it works? I found this new compressor on ebay. Supposedly it's for a semi truck application and has mounting tabs like the sanden compressors have.