A great ruling by a federal judge...................

[Richard Cranium]

Warning Drivers Of Speed Traps With Flashing Headlights Is Free Speech

A federal judge in St. Louis has set the benchmark

Posted: Feb 05, 2014




A federal judge in St. Louis ruled Monday that a driver flashing their lights to warn other drivers of an impending speed trap is protected free speech.

On November 22, 2012 Michael Elli received a ticket for flashing his lights to warn fellow drivers of a speed trap, according to Fox 2. The American Civil Liberties Union helped Elli fight the $1,000 ticket all the way to federal court.

Judge Henry Autrey of St. Louis ruled a driver has the right to flash their lights under the First Amendment. Autrey issued an injunction to stop Ellisville Police from enforcing the policy.

"If you're at the gas station on the corner and someone says 'Hey be careful over there, there's a speed trap,' that's protected speech. You can't be ticketed for that. This is no different," Tony Rothert, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union, told Fox 2.

A lawyer for the police in Ellisville said the department isn't affected by the ruling, as this kind of ticket has only been issued five or so times in the last decade. Across the country, however, the ruling will be considered the benchmark for such cases.

 

[marlabuck]

Damn straight!!!...Marla

 

[kellycom]

I'm not sure it's "speech". But I'm not sure why it would be illegal. In any event it's a good ruling.

 

[Cranky]

I'm not sure it's "speech". But I'm not sure why it would be illegal. In any event it's a good ruling.

Same as a hand signal or even a wink. It's a form of communication. How bout when the CB radio craze was in full swing? No one got a ticket for giving out warnings on those. It's just another form of 'electronic' communication.

 

[Speedbird]

The though occurs to me that the obvious question should be asked.
What is the purpose of a "speed trap" or just running radar?
1. Is it to make people slow down for safety?
2. Or is it to raise revenue?
(It could be both)
But if it is primarily the first, warning others simply serves the same purpose of safety by encouraging them to slow down.
If it includes the second purpose of revenue, one can see why the government would object.

 

[ws27]

I'm curious what the actual infraction was written up as?

 

[moparphilip383]

That arguement won't work in Cleveland, Ohio. As much as I agree with the it. The cops around here have ticketed my family member for driving with a handicap marker on the rearview mirror. Saying it posed a saftey hazard when driving. The rearview mirror is required by state law to be free of obstructions when driving. Even sunglasses folded up behind the mirror needs to be removed. As of flashing or turning on or off headlamps to signal other drivers is also illegal in Cleveland. Only signal to other drivers allowed is prepassing or providing right of way.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Here's some more detail.....

http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/02/05/65130.htm

 

[67GTX440]

Oh great! Then I guess those who drive with the high beams on permanently or the left turn signal on across three states are protected under free speech also.

 

[Runner 68]

Ha! I have always wondered about this one. I do it all the time. What cracks me up is when you flash your lights at someone else to warn them then they give you a look like "what the hell is your problem" only to watch them get pulled over when you look in your mirror.

 

[67 B-body]

Good,,,, I'm glad someone in the position to make Federal rulings has stood up to this!
Now we can all have the option to reference a FEDERAL ruling on the matter, if we find ourselves in the same position.
Several years ago, I had failed to get my vehicle registration renewed on time "no legitimate excuse,, it just didn't get done". Well as the story goes, my Wife and I had decided to go out one evening, and when returning home "Two stop signs away from home" I was pulled over..... The officer came to my window and of course the first thing he asked was "Have you been drinking"... After this exchange of information he told me that my tags were expired... I said "Oh ****",,, I realized I had forgotten about this....
Well he gave me a citation for the tags being expired, but the Bullshit part comes next... Not only did the ticket have a citation for expired registration "which it was and I except", it also had a citation for fictitious registration! I looked at him and said "Are you freekin kidding me??!!" How the hell can I have an "expired" / "Fictitious" registration????? "You cant have something that's fake "fictitious", be expired!!!"
I told my lawyer this same thing,,,, He went to the courthouse and told the Judge the same thing "You cant have something that's fake "fictitious", be expired!!!", and the case was dismissed!!!
I would have gladly paid a fine for expired registration, but this is another example of how these small town Cops think they own the law, and can do whatever the hell they want, and can make up any BS infraction however they see fit!!!!

BTW: Fictitious registration is a felony!

 

[Cranky]

Good,,,, I'm glad someone in the position to make Federal rulings has stood up to this!
Now we can all have the option to reference a FEDERAL ruling on the matter, if we find ourselves in the same position.
Several years ago, I had failed to get my vehicle registration renewed on time "no legitimate excuse,, it just didn't get done". Well as the story goes, my Wife and I had decided to go out one evening, and when returning home "Two stop signs away from home" I was pulled over..... The officer came to my window and of course the first thing he asked was "Have you been drinking"... After this exchange of information he told me that my tags were expired... I said "Oh ****",,, I realized I had forgotten about this....
Well he gave me a citation for the tags being expired, but the Bullshit part comes next... Not only did the ticket have a citation for expired registration "which it was and I except", it also had a citation for fictitious registration! I looked at him and said "Are you freekin kidding me??!!" How the hell can I have an "expired" / "Fictitious" registration????? "You cant have something that's fake "fictitious", be expired!!!"
I told my lawyer this same thing,,,, He went to the courthouse and told the Judge the same thing "You cant have something that's fake "fictitious", be expired!!!", and the case was dismissed!!!
I would have gladly paid a fine for expired registration, but this is another example of how these small town Cops think they own the law, and can do whatever the hell they want, and can make up any BS infraction however they see fit!!!!

BTW: Fictitious registration is a felony!

The cop gave you an 'out'....a break if you will. I got a speeding ticket while back for doing 50 in a 35. The correct speed limit is 40 so in reality, I was doing 10 over. I brought it up to the cop and he just just 'thanks for being honest' and left. Yeah, I had to spend some time in court and money on a cheap lawyer to get it thrown out but at least I didn't have to mess with driver's ed or get points on my record AND I watch my speed more closely. Most cops are really not that dumb if you think about it....and they usually just want you to do what's safe and right.

 

[monaco66coupe]

My brother was a cop for 32 years, and told me the range of I.Q. for most is very low, to very high. Some would give their own mother a ticket. There just Isn't any way to know which one your going to be stopped by. I was stopped on my motorcycle once by one of those safety stops, so-called! looking for whoever. When He got to me, I advised him that yes, indeed I have my helmet on. He sneered! I think that index finger almost came up too! it was 4:00 and rush hour traffic, no less!

 

[Moparsmitty]

Around here drivers ( me included) flash their lights to warn each other of deer on the roads. There are lots of deer around here and I'm sure that warning has saved some people from bad accidents. I guess if this was Ellisville, we would be breaking the law, but you know what, if I can save someone from a bad accident, I'm going to do it anyway. Also, I don't agree with a lot of stuff that the ACLU does, but I can certainly get behind this.

 

[69a100]

Same as a hand signal or even a wink. It's a form of communication. How bout when the CB radio craze was in full swing? No one got a ticket for giving out warnings on those. It's just another form of 'electronic' communication.

I was going to say somewhat the same thing about C.B's as well. Good on you Judge!!!!!

 

[67 B-body]

The cop gave you an 'out'....a break if you will. I got a speeding ticket while back for doing 50 in a 35. The correct speed limit is 40 so in reality, I was doing 10 over. I brought it up to the cop and he just just 'thanks for being honest' and left. Yeah, I had to spend some time in court and money on a cheap lawyer to get it thrown out but at least I didn't have to mess with driver's ed or get points on my record AND I watch my speed more closely. Most cops are really not that dumb if you think about it....and they usually just want you to do what's safe and right.

I have to cordially disagree... It was not an "out"... My registration was not "fictitious" it was expired.... Every day, people are issued violations in regards to Expired registration when they forget, "or simply don't feel like" to get the thing renewed prior to there birthday....

 

[Runner 68]

My brother was a cop for 32 years, and told me the range of I.Q. for most is very low, to very high. Some would give their own mother a ticket. There just Isn't any way to know which one your going to be stopped by. I was stopped on my motorcycle once by one of those safety stops, so-called! looking for whoever. When He got to me, I advised him that yes, indeed I have my helmet on. He sneered! I think that index finger almost came up too! it was 4:00 and rush hour traffic, no less!

Isn't that pretty much the case for all people?

 

[Budnicks]

Finally !! some common sense from an elected official... One less small little civil liberty not taken away, by more constant govt. outreach/expansion & control of our every move...

 

[Cranky]

I have to cordially disagree... It was not an "out"... My registration was not "fictitious" it was expired.... Every day, people are issued violations in regards to Expired registration when they forget, "or simply don't feel like" to get the thing renewed prior to there birthday....

Writing up a 'conflicting' ticket gave you an out. Maybe he was a dumbass and maybe he did it on purpose. That you'll never know but the ticket you got was so conflicting that no judge in their right mind could go with it but it made you hassle with it just like my speeding ticket did with the wrong posted speed limit did to me. Makes you want to pay closer attention to what you're doing be it with speeding or taking notice of your registration. I walk around my cars at least once a week to make sure all lights are working and nothing is expired and I sure pay attention to my speed.....the better I am at my game, the harder it is for a cop to give me a 'valid' ticket but sometimes, cops will fork up on purpose. It gives you wake up call and costs are usually minimal (if you hire a lawyer) and no points go on your record.

 

[bobtile]

Finally !! some common sense from an elected official... One less small little civil liberty not taken away, by more constant govt. outreach/expansion & control of our every move...

Nice to see that someone is using "the over 50 smiley faces" that I can see without my glasses on.