A12 Dilemma....

[Curiousyellow71]

What does the exhaust system look like on the car with such low miles?
Is it a survivor? or been replaced like most?. It's hard to say what is best not knowing what has been done or needs to be done, or left alone cause it survived all these years.
If you want a modern convertor I would call Dynamic. They are mopar guys and will have a appreciation for your A12.

 

[Dejavu1]

I'm liking your approach. Could you elaborate in reference to the head work, cam, pistons, and rods? When I restored the car in 99, the only mods were Bob's cam, and very minor head work. Thanks again

 

[Dejavu1]

What does the exhaust system look like on the car with such low miles?
Is it a survivor? or been replaced like most?. It's hard to say what is best not knowing what has been done or needs to be done, or left alone cause it survived all these years.
If you want a modern convertor I would call Dynamic. They are mopar guys and will have a appreciation for your A12.

I did restore it in 1999-2000 after purchasing it in Greeley Colorado with 28,000 miles. I suspect those were a 1/4 at a time. As it sits today, it has 33,000 on it. When I found it, it had headers, electric fuel pumps in the trunk, and was painted a non-mopar turquoise. I have photos of the car when it came to Colorado. At that time, it had a 1960s style gold and bronze lace style paint job. There was a tag on the fire wall that read: "Transmissions by Bruce", and in the driver's door jamb was lettered "Paint by Chico". The former owner tossed me the keys and we drove to a local gas station, put it on a lift and confirmed all the numbers. It was smoking pretty bad, but ran pretty good. Everything salvageable was used, and the rest was put back original. We even found the build sheet, which guided the restoration. I owned a body shop at the time, so I handled the paint and body; and Ray Moore and Lee Hodge of Spartanburg SC put everything back correctly. During the restoration, the car was media blasted and the only rust was a very small spot behind the lower right rear wheel opening. I documented the restoration with photos. Thanks....

This is what it looked like when it came into Greeley in the late 1970s.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

I see no harm doing the exhaust system/headers or hp manifolds however you want then. The exhaust is nothing that can't be easily turned back to original and a personal preference. It's your car enjoy it.

 

[BSB67]

I've considered building another engine, but really want the car to remain "the real deal". Could anyone suggest a formula/blueprint or builder that could help me achieve these goals?
accomplish these goals?

I think we’ve given what you need relative to what you gave us.

I have no idea what remaining “ the real deal” means to you. Apparently it does not mean stock-ish, or stock appearing, and it can include a converter, headers, pistons, rods, but not a stroker crank.

Maybe tell us what you can live with, and cannot live with. Idle quality, cam shaft lifter type, hp and or et/mph requirements, and budget.

You can make 600 hp with manifolds, stockish idle and run well into the 11s at over 120 mph with a stock converter. Or you can keep your factory crank, and with with enough cam, headers, converter, gear and tire, be at about the same place.

 

[Dejavu1]

"The real deal" implies not having to explain (at a car show) that "it's a matching numbers A12, but (by the way) the matching block is on an engine stand in my garage". I want to show the "real" car, and when I leave, I don't wanna get outrun (rolling off with some "store-bought" Mustang). I figure 500 HP and similar torque would accomplish this goal, without compromising the car. I'm doing the best I can here, and am sincerely asking for a little (specific) guidance. As I explained before, I've been out of it for a while, but want to represent the A12 for the muscle-car lore that it is known for, and not as "a trailer queen". I hope this clarifies where I'm coming from. Thanks....

 

[lewtot184]

I know the temptation is there to add the stroker crank, headers and aluminum heads. I see lots of dogs with these mods and I'd be embarassed at the way a lot of them perform.
I prefer the Stock eliminator approach more. Head work, stock manifolds, better cam, light pistons and maybe even lighter rods. You see a stock looking A-12 and it runs mid 12's or better through the stock exhaust and that impresses you more than the obviously modded car that doesn't run any better truth be told.
I found that on the street a Hemi really works with a stroker crank working so well with the big heads. A 440 is a totally different animal and has to be finessed differently. Using stock heads you need to apply tricks to them and there's no use adding cubes.

Having done both ways, lightly modified stocker and alum head /cammed up /headers car, I'd have to say for money and time spent my lightly modified stocker was more of an over achiever vs the modified engine. I've also thought of the 496 route but would never do what the common culture does.

 

[lewtot184]

I wouldn't let myself be delusional about keeping up with these modern supercharged cars. Even if your new engine is heavily modified they'll knock your windshield out on the dragstrip;...with the a/c on!

 

[BSB67]

I wouldn't let myself be delusional about keeping up with these modern supercharged cars. Even if your new engine is heavily modified they'll knock your windshield out on the dragstrip;...with the a/c on!

There is another thread where folks in the business deliver a rebuilt engine at agreed upon hp, and the customer is not satisfied with the performance.

I believe that is true probably in part because today’s cars perform so much better. My Dodge minivan will go toe to toe with a stockish 383 4bbl B-Body. Why wouldn’t it, 295 net hp, 6 speed transmission, and a pretty smart torque converter.

I’ve run my Charger at test & tune a few times recently. I stage with the street guys. I run pretty consistent 11.70s @120. I’m about the slowest guy out there. Guy I was running with last time was running his late model Mustang that makes 900 RWHP.

The question most asked about my car- “What is it?”

 

[Runcharger]

Agree totally. It reminds me back in the 70's a local guy bought an A-body that had been prepped by Dick Landy. He took the powertrain out of his Duster and installed it in the Landy Demon and it went several tenths faster. There's more to a fast ride than the engine.

 

[lewtot184]

There is another thread where folks in the business deliver a rebuilt engine at agreed upon hp, and the customer is not satisfied with the performance.

I believe that is true probably in part because today’s cars perform so much better. My Dodge minivan will go toe to toe with a stockish 383 4bbl B-Body. Why wouldn’t it, 295 net hp, 6 speed transmission, and a pretty smart torque converter.

I’ve run my Charger at test & tune a few times recently. I stage with the street guys. I run pretty consistent 11.70s @120. I’m about the slowest guy out there. Guy I was running with last time was running his late model Mustang that makes 900 RWHP.

The question most asked about my car- “What is it?”

My v6 Honda will out run my r/t. Several years ago I watched a bunch of challengers and chargers run 9.90's on a 10.0 index. All the cars were drove in. I saw a class racer car run 7.90's. I remember when top fuel cars couldn't run in the 7's. Elvis left the building on this old muscle car stuff.

 

[MWbirdLOVER70]

There is another thread where folks in the business deliver a rebuilt engine at agreed upon hp, and the customer is not satisfied with the performance.

I believe that is true probably in part because today’s cars perform so much better. My Dodge minivan will go toe to toe with a stockish 383 4bbl B-Body. Why wouldn’t it, 295 net hp, 6 speed transmission, and a pretty smart torque converter.

I’ve run my Charger at test & tune a few times recently. I stage with the street guys. I run pretty consistent 11.70s @120. I’m about the slowest guy out there. Guy I was running with last time was running his late model Mustang that makes 900 RWHP.

The question most asked about my car- “What is it?”

It’s class act!!!! Not all plastic

 

[Curiousyellow71]

There is plenty of performance available between a stock A12 and one tricked out. New cars...No thanks, a few good ones but most are boring.. would love a ride in ANY A12 though!

 

[Curiousyellow71]

 

[VANDAN]

Hydraulic roller stroker, Quality Build, and Drive It. You probably won't use it up, Car for Life...

 

[Curiousyellow71]

I did restore it in 1999-2000 after purchasing it in Greeley Colorado with 28,000 miles. I suspect those were a 1/4 at a time. As it sits today, it has 33,000 on it. When I found it, it had headers, electric fuel pumps in the trunk, and was painted a non-mopar turquoise. I have photos of the car when it came to Colorado. At that time, it had a 1960s style gold and bronze lace style paint job. There was a tag on the fire wall that read: "Transmissions by Bruce", and in the driver's door jamb was lettered "Paint by Chico". The former owner tossed me the keys and we drove to a local gas station, put it on a lift and confirmed all the numbers. It was smoking pretty bad, but ran pretty good. Everything salvageable was used, and the rest was put back original. We even found the build sheet, which guided the restoration. I owned a body shop at the time, so I handled the paint and body; and Ray Moore and Lee Hodge of Spartanburg SC put everything back correctly. During the restoration, the car was media blasted and the only rust was a very small spot behind the lower right rear wheel opening. I documented the restoration with photos. Thanks....

What was done to the engine in '99 besides cleaned up heads and new cam? If cam went flat that says something was off like the oil used...that was back when cams and lifters had good quality yet.

 

[BSB67]

I think the certified stock guys are in the mid- to low 12’s @ 112 with Bob’s cam.

 

[BSB67]

What was done to the engine in '99 besides cleaned up heads and new cam? If cam went flat that says something was off like the oil used...that was back when cams and lifters had good quality yet.

And why exactly was it smoking, and what was done to stop it?

 

[Northwoodsbee]

If you don’t mind yet another opinion. Here’s my old guy 2 cents. You’ve gotten a ton of great advice

 

[Northwoodsbee]

Sorry, fat fingered the post button… as I was saying you’ve gotten a lot of great advice. If it were me? I’d do what makes you smile when you look at or drive the car. Pick a path whether it’s build it up or make it stock and go for it with no regrets. Life is short, enjoy that beautiful piece of Mopar muscle history to the fullest. After all, we are only temporary care takers of them.