Adjusting camber/caster

[J-440]

Evening all. I have the complete tubular front end from Magnumforce racing and am trying to adjust the camber and caster. These are the older upper arms with the threaded rod ends to adjust camber. I'm using the stock eccentric cam bolts for caster adjustment.
Car is level with front tires off and the lower a arms are compressed to simulate ride height. I also have a sweet magnetic gauge with levels that mounts on the hub. The deal is every time I adjust the caster, the camber moves and vice versa. Since these arms don't have adjustable cams on them, I have to take them off and thread the rods in or out to get camber. I was told that the right side of the arm needs to be closest to the engine, and the left side needs to be furthest away. I've got my specs from Magnumforce but this is still a pain in the *** process. Anyone have this type of front end and if so, some pointers would be nice. Thanks.

 

[dan juhasz]

I'm not familiar with that suspension system but alignments are something I do almost daily.
The only way to maintain camber from moving is to adjust caster in equal but opposite amounts. For instance if you are trying to increase caster on the right front but maintain the current cambe angle, you would tilt the forward eccentric outward and tilt the rear eccentric in towards center the exact same amount. This maintains camber but tilts the upper ball joint to the rear to increase caster. Hope this helps.

 

[J-440]

Thanks for the help. After a lot of researching I finally got it. It's not right at the specs that Magnumforce recommends but it's pretty darn close. I ended up with -1* camber with +3* caster.
Caster is mainly important for cars with manual vs power steering correct? Doesn't really benefit handling on a road coarse but is mainly needed for cruising in a straight line and ease of turning at low speeds?

 

[dan juhasz]

The more positive caster you dial in the harder it is to turn off center at low speeds. Cars with a lot of positive caster steer straight. Modern cars have loads of positive caster.
Your setting would be good for road course racing. You would be surprised how much easier it would steer with 0 or 1 degree caster. With power steering you could load up on positive caster and not struggle.

 

[daytona kid]

I have done my front end alignments the old old school way for years with good outcomes. I put the front end up level, loosen the torsion bar adjusters completely, turn the wheels full left, put a level on the wheel or hub, adjust till straight with level up and down on wheel or hub, turn wheels to full right and repeat, jack up under lower arm to compress and check and adjust the same way, then do same on other side. To adjust toe in or out I used a tape measure to outer tread edges front and back of tires as high up on the tires as possible. I would tweak it after a few test drives to get the best feel while turning, This was done with manual steering and no radials. I took the car/s to a pro front-end shop to check it after the first few times of doing it this way and they always said it was perfect. Not sure if this is a good way or any of this will help you but figured I'd share in case it may.

 

[J-440]

I appreciate the input. While adjusting my toe however I ran into a problem. The rear end that I had welded by a shop years ago is exactly 1" off center. While cruising at 55 I have a nice intermittent vibration. I'm wondering the faster I go, could the driveshaft decide to just tear itself from the u joints and do all sorts of wonderful things to the underside of my car?

 

[dan juhasz]

I appreciate the input. While adjusting my toe however I ran into a problem. The rear end that I had welded by a shop years ago is exactly 1" off center. While cruising at 55 I have a nice intermittent vibration. I'm wondering the faster I go, could the driveshaft decide to just tear itself from the u joints and do all sorts of wonderful things to the underside of my car?

What do you mean 1 inch off center?

 

[J-440]

When I measured toe on both sides (the string method), the passenger side rear wheel and front wheel were spot on. The driver side front wheel was an inch further out than the rear. I just measured my rear wheels and it looks like they are fitting square in the fenderwells. So now I'm wondering if my driver side front tire is an inch out from the body. May need to check the vibration from another source. Still need to find out why my driver's tire is the way it is.

 

[67 coronet]

When I measured toe on both sides (the string method), the passenger side rear wheel and front wheel were spot on. The driver side front wheel was an inch further out than the rear. I just measured my rear wheels and it looks like they are fitting square in the fenderwells. So now I'm wondering if my driver side front tire is an inch out from the body. May need to check the vibration from another source. Still need to find out why my driver's tire is the way it is.

did you measure from outside of rear wheel lip to outside of rear wheel?is it off 1 inch side to side?you say "square in fenderwell",not sure what you mean.

 

[Ski 61701]

I have done my front end alignments the old old school way for years with good outcomes. I put the front end up level, loosen the torsion bar adjusters completely, turn the wheels full left, put a level on the wheel, adjust till straight with level up and down on wheel, turn wheels to full right and repeat, jack up under lower arm to compress and check and adjust the same way, then do same on other side. To adjust toe in or out I used a tape measure to outer tread edges front and back of tires as high up on the tires as possible. I would tweak it after a few test drives to get the best feel while turning, This was done with manual steering and no radials. I took the car/s to a pro front-end shop to check it after the first few times of doing it this way and they always said it was perfect. Not sure if this is a good way or any of this will help you but figured I'd share in case it may.

So whenyou turn the wheel full left and right are you setting caster? Then when you jack up lower control arm are you setting camber? What kind of level are you using,and how high do you jack it up?
Thanks
Steve

 

[dan juhasz]

I'm a little confused about how you are using the string method for toe. You are only using the front 2 tires correct? You make it sound like you are some how incorporating the rear wheels which would be wrong.
You should reach the string across the front of the front tires and mark the string then measure 180 degrees ( the rear of the front tires) and see where your mark ends up.
Is that what you are doing?
Actually better to measure the rear of front tires make your mark then measure front side of front tires.

 

[daytona kid]

So whenyou turn the wheel full left and right are you setting caster? Then when you jack up lower control arm are you setting camber? What kind of level are you using,and how high do you jack it up?
Thanks
Steve

Not sure if that is how to explain it but seems more like setting both at once, I should have mentioned I also check the camber at center steering position between going left and right. I jack the car to near ride height with wheels removed to do caster and camber but it can be done with wheels on also with a car lift or 4 jack stands, and wheels on for toe adjusting. I jack the arms from rubber snubber top to snubber bottom. My level is an 18" carpenter bubble level, you may have to modify one to fit right so it won't hit the tires. They're not in this pic but I taped some pieces of 1/2 bar stock to it to make it fit my car's wheels. This pic is my truck which the level fits on nice by itself. You also needed a good level floor, stands or lift.

 

[J-440]

Ok, the car is level and up on stands, the front tires are off. I have a caster/camber gauge mounted to the center hub. I've already set them both. Now with the string method, I have a straight line from the rear center hub to the front center hub. The jackstands I'm using which the string is tied to, is 2" away from the outer lip of the rear wheel. I go to the front driver tire and set toe. Now when I do this from the passenger tire, I'm 1" off, meaning the tire is 1" toward the motor. I "squared" both rear tires using a tape measure and the axle is center. I think the vibration is coming from an axle. I did a search and think I narrowed it down. As for the wheel, my frame may be bent from an accident the original owner had.

 

[Ski 61701]

What brand of camber caster gauge are you using? Do you like it?

 

[daytona kid]

If you are worried about your drive shaft I strongly suggest checking it for safety's sake.. I had one let go in the traps at the local strip going 100mph, it chased me down the shutdown area. The vibs broke all the mount ears off the 4 spd trans and shattered the stock bell house like an eggshell. Fortunately the clutch and flywheel stayed together or I'd be going by the name of "Shorty". And stupidly not having a shaft safety loop I was lucky not to flip or cook if it had punctured the gas tank.

Here is something that may help you check for bent frame.
For some measuring I used plumbobs and marked my floor.

 

[J-440]

Thanks Kid for the info. I'll check my driveshaft asap. As for the caster/camber gauge, it's from Speedway Motors. It's a DECO brand, purple aluminum with a huge magnet on the end. Bout $120.