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Alignment at home and aftermarket UCAS too.

Great read KD!! I enjoyed following along your adventures as I have been down this path too.

It is a learning experience but has turned out to be simpler than I thought.

As for centering the steering wheel by turning the tie rod ends, just might be worth mentioning that your suspension gain can change when you do. And with a differing length of tie rod, you can see where the camber/toe change is different when you adjust those tie rod sleeves. Not the end of the world, just something to be aware of if you have to spin them a bunch.

Dwayne (@68 Sport Satellite) expressed concern about the dangers of steering component failure like he almost had with his car due to improper service he received at a second rate shop. Maybe this was what he meant? I aimed for equal lengths in the tie rod assemblies when I put this one together. I was as close as I could get and am still at 12 1/2” left and 12” right when I measured center to center on the tie rod assemblies. This Borgeson steering box has to be installed centered of its left to right travel. The wheel needs to be centered. That will limit what you can do with the tie rod lengths. Jigsaw has different lengths for the tie rod assemblies too.
Anyhow, thx for your excellent documentary and great pics. Well done!!

Thank you for the kind words. This is one of the reasons that I enjoy these online forums…. The ability to share information.
Cheers.
 
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If you are one of those guys that can do something that isn’t quite perfect but be okay with it, good for you.
I’m not a perfectionist but I do seem to dwell on stuff that I didn’t do just the way I wanted.
The adapter.
I wanted to invert it so it would rest against the hub. I cut the diameter down.
This is the way that stands off the hub.


D231D4D2-1EF3-4F9D-B4C9-53A8E9EC78A7.jpeg


It clears the lug nuts just fine. The problem is…

2EE8DE8B-3438-4B34-AFDC-E88CF83E1160.jpeg


When it is turned around I am able to screw on a bit further but…

3E9E3A3B-0757-4B3C-865C-B9ED168D3416.jpeg


The stock nut sticks past the hub.

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Plus there is the matter of my imperfect placement of the washer.

2EE8DE8B-3438-4B34-AFDC-E88CF83E1160.jpeg


The outer diameter of the washer is about this size.


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Trying to fit this gauge over an off center washer with welds on it…

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What if there is another way?
What if you don’t have a welder?
 
This would work.
I scrounged and found some big washers, I cut another 1/4” thick plate and found more bearing nuts.

6911F114-EAEB-466A-9AFB-25D3870F71A8.jpeg


Lay two of those washers on the spindle…

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Then the plate.

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It is drilled to allow the spindle to pass through. Not many threads are remaining but there are enough.

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Boom.

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Now I didn’t see any difference between attaching to just the spindle and attaching to the spindle and resting up against the hub but having options is a good thing.
 
Building a better mouse trap. I admire your ingenuity. The Coronet is setup nice, but now I'm inspired to take another deep dive into the Dart. I rebuilt the front suspension about 6 years ago, added USCT subframe connectors; .92 T-bars.
But based upon the alignment specs, I'm leaving some performance on the table.
 
Building a better mouse trap. I admire your ingenuity. The Coronet is setup nice, but now I'm inspired to take another deep dive into the Dart. I rebuilt the front suspension about 6 years ago, added USCT subframe connectors; .92 T-bars.
But based upon the alignment specs, I'm leaving some performance on the table.
I know a guy that might be able to help.
 
1. Could your washer-mounting plate be cut down to clear the lug nuts?

2. Spit balling here, wondering if a washer-mounting plate inside diameter cut to clear the bearing nut then stack of washers, or a short pipe be used over said bearing nut (or a spring) and then the mounting nut to hold it all in place. The washer-mounting plate would seat against the hub without welding anything. Have to check what the tool would clear.

typing this while you were posting Ha

See post #123.
 
I went through my notebook for the Jigsaw Charger. I actually DID put offset bushings in the control arms.
 
A slight departure....
The experiences I had with the difference in numbers I got from the alignment shop versus the numbers that I measured with the DIY stuff has me curious.
My initial thoughts regarding the shop guy told me one set of numbers and I arrived at a different set:
Why? Was it intentional on his part to lie?
There is surely the possibility of a slight error in his equipment and or mine so getting the exact same numbers from two methods may not be likely.
I still think that I was told what they thought that I wanted to hear and that they figured I'd never find out.
With that in mind, I went a step further today.
FBBO member Rich, AKA CoronetDarter has this '68 Dart:

04 Dart.JPG


It is a well sorted car. Manual steering, .92 t bars, Bilstein shocks, offset bushings in the UCAs and PST solid tie rod sleeves.
His shop aligned the car in 2018 and he had the printout. I'm going off of memory so my numbers may not be exact but I thought I read less than 1/2 degree of negative camber on the right with about 1.6 degrees of caster. The left was almost at zero camber and 1.4 degrees of caster. I knew that we could do better than that so I was over at his place with my stuff to see what could be done.

First off, the right side camber showed to be 1 1/4 degrees negative, not 1/2 degree. The caster measured either 2 1/2 degrees or 2 1/4, I don't recall. The left side had 1/2 degree negative camber and similar caster to the right at 2 1/4 degrees. In this instance, the numbers measured were actually better than what was on the printout.
On a test drive, the steering wheel spun back to center quicker than I'd expect for only 2+ degrees of caster. Steering effort is good, though the slower ratio of the manual takes more degrees of rotation to make the turn than what I'm used to driving. The car tracks straight. NO wandering, no following the creases and cracks in the road. It felt safe, stable and predictable. It has no bad manners.
Rich has considered upgrades like the tubular arms that give more caster, heim joint strut rods, bigger torsion bars and a sway bar.
I think that with the street racer vibe the car has, it is set up just right as it sits.
Sure, you could spend the money on those parts to bring it to the next level of handling but as it sits, it has no bad habits and it handles quite well. I saw very little body lean despite having no sway bar.
My point though is.....
Maybe the discrepancy in the numbers the shop reports versus what I measure can be any one of several things.
Operator errors. Given that I only spent $140 on this gauge, I'm guessing that I'm more likely to be at fault though I've been checking and getting the same results over and over.
Faulty equipment. If the shop guys are used to set the toe and go, maybe caster and camber aren't attended to as much as they should be?
Lies from the shop. They might be figuring that the car owners would never find out the truth.
Degradation of the car's bushings over time, leading to changing numbers. Usually, as the bushings wear, the camber goes negative.

SF 22 A12.JPG
 
I'm learning a bit with each car. I like learning new things.
If I am doing it wrong, I'd want to know so I can learn to do it right. The whole thing has me wondering where the majority of the differences come from.
I could take my car in for another alignment and see what numbers they come up with to compare to my own findings but that would mean I'd have to spend $160 to settle the curiosity. I don't think so, man.
The 3 cars that I have done all track straight and steer great so I must be doing okay.
 
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KD - I have one question re: differences in the numbers - with all the work and mods you do to the red car from time to time, do you know if your car was set up the same when the shop did the alignment vs when you just did your own self alignment? For example, was your car battery up front under the hood before and now it's in the trunk? That could throw numbers off a bit from what I'm reading. Could the same be said for swapping in radically different tires and wheels? Not sure. In the end though, like you said, if the car tracks straight and handles well now, who cares what the numbers are.
 
Changes? Good point. It is certainly worth considering.
The car was aligned after I had the engine, trans and K member out and back in the car from June to October 2022. It was aligned early 2023. The only thing that changed was the front tires but I went with the same size again. I had a bad lower ball joint on the left so it was replaced.
The red car had camber close to the claimed number but the caster was 2 to 2 1/2 degrees less. The toe was off slightly too.
I am certainly willing to accept fault if I find out that I am wrong. I'd rather swallow my pride and learn than to remain "proud" yet ignorant.
The red car has always felt stable and capable. It does not wander or drift across the road. High speed, low speed, the car just inspires confidence. Positive caster helps with that but I wonder at what point does increasing it provide little to no gains.
If I was at barely over 3 degrees and the car felt fine....but now at 8 degrees, what did I gain? Better and more even tire wear when I push it harder?
Yesterday I drove Rich's Dart and even with barely over 2 degrees of caster, his steering wheel whipped back to center from turns. It drives great with no bad habits.
Manual steering helps with that but I wonder what effect you'd see in a car like his going from 2 degrees to 5 by using the tubular control arms if it already feels and performs fine. My steering wheel didn't return to center with authority at 3 degrees of caster and that is with power steering and 275 series tires up front. With 8 degrees, it snaps back from a turn like Rich's car does.
 
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Probably a wrong assumption, but I also believe that the A bodies like Rich's Dart can be made to drive nicer than these heavier B bodies. My Duster is the nicest driving/handling Mopar I have ever owned.
 
Has anyone viewed Chris birdsong (jukerup) on YouTube? He's selling 1.5" balljoint lowering brackets. He says reduces bump steer by 50% and helps with better geometry. Any expert opinions on this?
 
Those brackets he sells don't fit the disc brake knuckles from 1973-76 A body cars or the 73-89 FMJR cars.

This is the common disc knuckle:

KS 9.JPG


Now look at the knuckle he has with the bracket on it:

1718740049349.png


The mounting pattern is different. This bracket won't fit what most of us have but to use his brackets, the drum knuckles are not hard to find.
Using the brackets will certainly tilt the bottom of the knuckle out to the point to having a LOT of negative camber. For a dedicated track or autocross car, that may be fine.
I don't feel comfortable about the cantilevered outer tie rod connection or unsealed tie rod and ball joints. That reminds me of the RMS setup.
For me, I haven't noticed a problem with bump steer to warrant anything so radical.

1718739944007.png
 
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UPDATE:

After doing the work on this car, I went and worked on Jigsaw, my ratty '70 Charger. A short time later I checked the alignment on a fellow FBBO members '68 Dart. Later on I rebuilt the front suspension in my 72 Duster and applied some of the same tricks that I did here.
I really enjoy doing this and am eager to learn more on it.

FER 15.JPG
FER 159.JPG
 
I believe they’re really all the same, I just used PST because the member discount made them the cheapest option, and I found a good alignment shop that got the alignment exactly to what firm feel and this chart recommends. Of course my previous alignment might not have been the best, but it’s a night and day difference. Everything thing else is factory 68 GTX, and the alignment guy
Said when he put 4 degrees of caster in the camber fell right in to 1 degree
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I see they still line up with bumpers as some others do not, aftermarket tube type.
 
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