Alignment at home and aftermarket UCAS too.

[68 Sport Satellite]

I'm looking forward to the post-installation road handling report.

 

[Kern Dog]

Here we are.
Left side, bottom numbers.

Right side.

Even caster and camber. 1.0 degree negative camber and 8.0 degrees of caster. Next I’ll measure toe. I aim to get it to 1/8” IN. I wanted to dial back the caster a bit but I figured I’d try this and see. New Challengers have caster numbers similar to this and even more negative camber on the right side. If it steers fine, I’ll leave it here. To reduce caster and gain camber from here, I’d just have to adjust the rear cam bolts out. Right now both sides have the rear bolt almost all the way to the inside so there is still room to adjust.
Toe plates. This would be easier with a helper.

Front is 73 3/8”.

Rear is 73 1/8”. I am 1/4 inch toed OUT.

 

[Kern Dog]

Toe is now set to 1/8” in. I ran a string line across the left side to check. I adjusted the left toe rod collar until the wheel was 1/16” in at the front. I adjusted the tie rod collar to get the total toe.
Keep in mind, I have no training here…I am just using bonehead engineering practices! Soon, I’ll drive it.
We got a puppy a couple weeks back and the wife’s job got busier so I have to keep an eye on the dogs more than usual.

 

[Kern Dog]

Test drive went well. I see no drawback to this caster number despite it being over twice what I had before.
The steering wheel sure does want to return to center. Before, it would start to steer back to center but I sometimes had to assist it to keep a line. Now it’s as if the wheel snaps back after releasing the wheel in a turn. Steering effort seems no higher.
There was no wander, no drifting. Not a hint of tire squeal. (From the front anyway)
The steering wheel was off to the CCW direction a bit so I clocked both tie rods a half turn. I’ll readjust if needed. It is hot and I need to clean up. I’ve dealt with chassis grease and sweat enough for today.

Add broken glasses to the cost of this alignment.

I stepped on them when I turned a corner. Ah well…. That’s a few bucks at CVS.

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

Congratulations!

 

[Ray70Chrg]

Great job KD. Thanks for the info and details.

 

[kreauto]

I never had any doubt. Well done.

 

[Kern Dog]

I never had any doubt. Well done.

Thank you. I knew that I'd make sense of it, though I didn't know how that I would.
I have this car too:

I want to use it as a test mule.
I know now that these QA 1 UCAs did add 3 degrees more caster at the same alignment cam positions than the stock UCAs with the Moog offset bushings. What I don't know is what the offset bushings add compared to standard bushings.
Currently, the car.. (I call it Jigsaw since it is built from pieces from numerous other cars)...Has stock UCAs with standard bushings, boxed lower control arms, seasoned/used tie rod ends, Fast Ratio idler and Pitman arms, an 1 1/4" front sway bar and stock .88 torsion bars. I have 1.0 bars to swap in but haven't gotten there yet.
I want to map the alignment readings like they did in this chart:

I expect the numbers that I measure to line up with the chart above.
I want to test it with the standard UCAs, then the ones I pulled from the red car....those have offset bushings. I'm curious as to how different the readings will be.

 

[kreauto]

No doubt will give you that 3 degree more positive caster.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

Nice job and very detailed and it sounds like you're happy with the way it drives! That's a win.

I'm a bit concerned about your extreme caster numbers though. I almost don't believe them - not that you didn't measure accurately, but remember the story I told you about the backup shop that did my car when my normal alignment shop was busy? They got me +6.5 degrees caster both sides and were high fiving me. Within 50 miles later, something felt wrong and when I took it to my normal shop, they discovered that the more than normal positive caster was achieved by doing something with the tie rods that I can't quite recall. I believe it was extending them too much and one of them was at the very end of the threads and binding or something. My point is - in all of my reading and working on these classic B-bodies since 2010, I've never heard of any of us or any of the magazine article write-ups achieving +8 degrees positive caster. Something feels off. Just humor me, put the car on the lift since it's now been driven and double-check all connecting pieces and make sure there's no binding or threads backing out. I had +5 degrees caster with my Hotckis V1 UCA's and +4.5 degrees with my Firm Feel UCA's now on my car. I can't imagine QA1 UCA's offer twice as much adjustment as those two. If they did, they should be outselling all of them. Not trying to bust your balls, just make sure the numbers aren't fooling you somehow.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

and then there's this chart, for max performance street they list +3.5 degrees and for track/auto-x they list +4.0 degrees. You've got +8 degrees caster? Something is off. I feel worried...

 

[70ChargerRT]

Nice job and very detailed and it sounds like you're happy with the way it drives! That's a win.

I'm a bit concerned about your extreme caster numbers though. I almost don't believe them - not that you didn't measure accurately, but remember the story I told you about the backup shop that did my car when my normal alignment shop was busy? They got me +6.5 degrees caster both sides and were high fiving me. Within 50 miles later, something felt wrong and when I took it to my normal shop, they discovered that the more than normal positive caster was achieved by doing something with the tie rods that I can't quite recall. I believe it was extending them too much and one of them was at the very end of the threads and binding or something. My point is - in all of my reading and working on these classic B-bodies since 2010, I've never heard of any of us or any of the magazine article write-ups achieving +8 degrees positive caster. Something feels off. Just humor me, put the car on the lift since it's now been driven and double-check all connecting pieces and make sure there's no binding or threads backing out. I had +5 degrees caster with my Hotckis V1 UCA's and +4.5 degrees with my Firm Feel UCA's now on my car. I can't imagine QA1 UCA's offer twice as much adjustment as those two. If they did, they should be outselling all of them. Not trying to bust your balls, just make sure the numbers aren't fooling you somehow.

I just had mine realigned a few weeks ago. Mines setting pretty low in the front. I think I got +5 and 5.5 and it drives great. Im going to crank it up another 1/2” and get it realigned next spring. I’ll try to remember to tell them to print it off.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

KD - when evaluating, you might want to try getting your car up to freeway speed and also take it on and off a few off-ramps. I'm reading that caster in excess of +6.5 degrees can make the front end lift a bit and under-steer in turns (as the suspension travels down, caster increases even further). You have sticky tires and sometimes drive aggressive, so don't want the +8 degrees to surprise you if you push it.

QA1 claims around +4.5 degrees all said and done, although I see some others getting up to +7 degrees.

 

[Kern Dog]

The tie rods have nothing to do with caster. They affect the toe setting. The more caster that you get, the lower the outer tie rod gets which may mean the tie rod assembly gets a bit longer. I didn't have to turn my tie rod collars very far to get the toe set to spec. Keep in mind that I also changed both lower ball joints due to wear.
I've only heard of a few guys getting numbers this high but It does happen. I responded to an alignment thread at FABO and have seen responses from members there with similar or better numbers.
I've thought that my car was somehow built with a positive tolerance stack up, maybe that is still true. When I measure the other cars, I'll know a bit more.
That "Skosh Chart" was put out over 20 years ago. Caster angles have steadily increased since then. The LC Challengers came along in 2008 and have had high caster numbers since the first car left the factory.

 

[CoronetDarter]

My 68 Dart, with manual steering, has the Moog offset UCA bushings. Also has the solid tie rod connectors from PST, and boxed LCA.
After rebuilding the suspension in 2018, I had the front end aligned by a shop that worked on classic cars, and were very familiar with Mopar T-bar suspensions. The car hasn't been aligned since.
The final numbers were Caster: +1.4°(L) and +1.3°(R); Camber: -0.1°(L) and -0.6°(R). Toe-in was 1/16". Thrust angle was 0°.
Reading this thread, Greg has me considering swapping in tubular UCAs to gain caster and more negative camber.
The manual steering box is already a workout at low speeds, how will increased caster affect low speed steering? Greg's alignment is certainly a bonus on power-assist steering, but I wonder if the skosh chart is applicable to manual and power steering.

 

[Kern Dog]

Increased caster will certainly result in greater steering effort.
A guy at FABO had over 8 degrees of caster in a Duster with a 16 to 1 manual chuck. I don't know if he is a strong man but I'd guess that it was not easy to steer when at slow speeds.
The procedure to check caster is simple. To check the left side, you turn the wheel to the left by 20 degrees and place the gauge on the hub...

Then, you turn the brass knob until the bubble in the center gets to zero.

The steering wheel is then turned to where it points 20 degrees to the right. This can be done with the gauge still attached or removed.
Once the wheel is at 20 degrees to the right, the gauge is set to level using the small bubble at the point:

With that leveling bubble in the center, you can now read the center scale for caster. The base for the gauge is magnetic and does rotate. I have spun it numerous times to ensure that the numbers I'm reading are repeatable. They have been for the most part. The gauge is claimed to be accurate to within 1/4 degree. I had to remove the center caps in my wheels to have a flat spot to rest the gauge. I had to hold the gauge against the wheel since the magnet won't stick to aluminum. If I've been doing it wrong, I'd welcome any advice on how to do it right.

 

[Kern Dog]

The drive with caster this high didn't seem to be unusual. The steering wheel returns to center all by itself...when I let go of the wheel in a turn, it spins back to center. It didn't return with such intensity before when it had 3 degrees. Otherwise, It steered and drove fine. NO squeaks from the poly bushings in the UCAs but then...I used lots of chassis grease when I installed them.
I'm learning how some cars may look like others but sometimes a frame rail is slightly forward or behind another, the UCA mounts could be a fraction of an inch forward or back compared to the other side. Small variations will affect alignment.
To get the numbers I got, I did have to shim the lower ball joint on the right side. Otherwise, with the high caster, I couldn't get the camber to where I wanted. This is no different than the other little tuning tweaks we do to get our ignition curves just right, degreeing a camshaft, carburetor jets or air bleeds, it is just tuning instead of assembling.
I do enjoy the learning process. I like knowing that uncharted territory lies ahead and I have to find a way through it. Sometimes when I am stumped, I do welcome suggestions though.

 

[Charlie Brown]

Increased caster will certainly result in greater steering effort.
A guy at FABO had over 8 degrees of caster in a Duster with a 16 to 1 manual chuck. I don't know if he is a strong man but I'd guess that it was not easy to steer when at slow speeds.
The procedure to check caster is simple. To check the left side, you turn the wheel to the left by 20 degrees and place the gauge on the hub...

View attachment 1674985

Then, you turn the brass knob until the bubble in the center gets to zero.

View attachment 1674987

The steering wheel is then turned to where it points 20 degrees to the right. This can be done with the gauge still attached or removed.
Once the wheel is at 20 degrees to the right, the gauge is set to level using the small bubble at the point:



View attachment 1674989

With that leveling bubble in the center, you can now read the center scale for caster. The base for the gauge is magnetic and does rotate. I have spun it numerous times to ensure that the numbers I'm reading are repeatable. They have been for the most part. The gauge is claimed to be accurate to within 1/4 degree. I had to remove the center caps in my wheels to have a flat spot to rest the gauge. I had to hold the gauge against the wheel since the magnet won't stick to aluminum. If I've been doing it wrong, I'd welcome any advice on how to do it right.

I always enjoy reading your threads. They are well thought out. You seem to have a curious and inquisitive mind and sometimes question the status quo. Refreshing.
In regards to your alignment bubble tool. I have a similar unit (Blue Point) and here is what I did to solve the magnetic issue on my 64 Dodge.

I welded a spindle nut to a piece of 1/4 inch plate

I then removed the wheel center cap, grease cap and cotter pin

Now that the threaded part of the spindle is exposed, I threaded on my plate

Then I placed the alignment unit on the plate. It's now hands free.

As an aside, I also cobbled together a gauge to measure suspension height. The scale does not really mater, as long as you record the
differences.

I have found that using this set up my results have been accurate

 

[Kern Dog]

Thanks for the nice words.
Your adapter is an excellent idea! I will make something like that for my cars.
Thank you for that too.

 

[64fury74charger]

KD did you install the spacers on both sides or only on one side?