Alan's 1970 Charger Restoration

[rklewis1005]

It would be interesting to take '68 or '69 model fenders and see about modifying them to resemble the 1970 models.
From the middle to the rear, they appear to be the same. It would be a matter of modifying the very front and then the lower front where the valance attaches.
A $500 used 68-69 fender + a bit or work OR Search and search for an expensive original 1970 fender.
At what price point would it be worth it for the aftermarket to step in with reproductions?

Exactly, if 2 years (68 & 69) make it worthwhile for them to reproduce, wouldn't it make sense to do it at 1.5x-2x the price of the 68/69 fenders? How many people would be in at that price - 700-1000 per fender?

 

[Kern Dog]

Part of the original reason for not reproducing them was that there were only 46,000 1970 Chargers built while there were about 95,000 68s and 90,000 69s. The 68 and 69 models were the most desirable for the most part too. The past 10 years, the 1970 has closed the gap on value. The Fast and Furious franchise may have made that possible.

 

[rklewis1005]

Part of the original reason for not reproducing them was that there were only 46,000 1970 Chargers built while there were about 95,000 68s and 90,000 69s. The 68 and 69 models were the most desirable for the most part too. The past 10 years, the 1970 has closed the gap on value. The Fast and Furious franchise may have made that possible.

So you're saying they'd need to charge 3-4x?

 

[Kern Dog]

(Shhhhhh)

 

[rklewis1005]

(Shhhhhh)

I've certainly messaged AMD about producing them. I even suggested they set up a pre-order to see the actual demand as it could change when folks have to put their money where their mouths are .

Has anyone tried the fiberglass ones from aarqualityfiberglass? I'm still planning on having a shop fix the chassis/body so I'd leave it to them if the current fenders are salvageable or must be replaced.

 

[rklewis1005]

Ok, so I've spent the last couple months cleaning the garage and preparing to get the Charger. This past weekend I was finally able to get to Western NY and retrieve it. It took a bit of effort to get it on the trailer as it's not running. The front wheels/brakes were locked up so we dragged it 10-15 feet with come-a-longs until they finally started spinning. I'm sure we left a breadcrumb trail of rust from there to South Carolina, but it's finally here and in my garage. Now the fun begins. I know everyone loves pictures, so here's a dump of some of the pics!

 

[Kern Dog]

Aw, man....Out here the outer body has minimal rust but the interiors are crumbling.

 

[rklewis1005]

I didn't do much the first week except tag and bag all the parts scattered in the trunk and interior. The original Holley 4368 carburetor, base plate, etc were there, so I wanted to make notes and store them appropriately. Once the miscellaneous stuff was sorted, I removed the seats hoping to find the build sheet. While no build sheet was found, I did get the seats, sill plates, accelerator, armrest, and front seat belts removed and tagged. I broke off 6 of the 8 seat rail studs due to extreme rust. I searched the forum and found a couple of sources (currently out of stock) and suggestions to use carriage bolts instead. I'll watch the websites for stock as I have time before I'll need them. I took pictures of the seats to show the condition and extreme fading. They should be brown and will be again when I replace the leather/vinyl coverings. The rear seat is still in decent shape, but I'm guessing the threads, etc will eventually break if I try to avoid replacing that vinyl. There are many places where I can see the ground or the seat brackets underneath, but a good start (finally).

 

[Coelacanth]

I wish my 70's seats were in that good condition! Our front floors were in similar condition, and my torsion bar crossmember was also rusted out at the ends where it's welded to the frame. I bought the AMD repro and my body man kept the original center piece, cut off the repro ends and welded them in. Good luck with your resto!

 

[rklewis1005]

I wish my 70's seats were in that good condition! Our front floors were in similar condition, and my torsion bar crossmember was also rusted out at the ends where it's welded to the frame. I bought the AMD repro and my body man kept the original center piece, cut off the repro ends and welded them in. Good luck with your resto!

I hope my body guy does similarly. Likely all 4 frame rails need replacing as well. I think the seats are in decent shape. Trying to decide to recover or recolor. I'm considering recovering as I think the stitching will continue to fail.

 

[ckessel]

Looks like you'll keep busy with rust repairs.

 

[rklewis1005]

I've been noodling on the "rust repairs". Part of me wants to build a frame jig (lots of examples/drawings/etc online) and do the frame rails, torsion bar, floor pans, etc on my own (with advice / help here and there). Then let a body & paint shop handle the rest. I know it would take longer and would likely be a little less perfect, but it would be fun and a great experience.

The other part of me wants it done faster and just send it off for frame/body/paint after I disassemble

Are there any "hour estimates" that folks are getting from shops when most/all frame rails/supports and floor/trunk pan need to be replaced? THey should have the JIGs/equipment/experience to make fast work out of it. Trying to "T-Shirt" size the labor hours knowing I'm in for 5-15k in parts.

I'm wondering which category it falls into:
Small: Less than 250 hours
Medium: 250-500 hours
Large: 500-750 hours
XLarge: 750-1000 hours
XXLarge: 1000+ hours

I got 1 T-Shirt size estimate on the frame/metal work so far (not finished body/paint) at approx 160-200 hours. That seems reasonable to me as long as the body / paint is around the same. Am I crazy to think 500 booked hours (12 1/2 man weeks) is a lot of time for experienced professionals?

Thanks
Ross

 

[rklewis1005]

Another shop here in SC said the average for a car like mine is around 500 hours

 

[rklewis1005]

Made a 780 mile round trip to pick up some fenders. So happy to have found some in this condition (no rust/bondo). Picked up another bumper & grill as well for good measure.

 

[rklewis1005]

I spent time this weekend pulling out the Windshield and rear window. I suffered a small crack in the windshield while trying to save both the glass and OEM gasket (detailed in another post); however, I still considered it a success as I have access to the dash bolts now. I removed all the chrome around the doors/drip rails/quarter panels without destroying any, so I made good progress. I can't wait to remove the dash, finish disassembling the interior then start on the back of the car (tail lights, gas tank, bumper, etc).

 

[rklewis1005]

I removed the dash last night. I will whip up a stand out of 2x4s to keep it at waist height while I clean it up and restore it. I was disappointed that the NON-AC Cars don't have a cutout for AC vents at each ends There is a trim piece that goes over each area, so why didn't they precut it? Does anyone know if the aftermarket AC systems expect to use those vent areas? Will I need to cut it out? If I need to cut it out, now is the time and it'd be covered by the trim pieces if I don't need it.

 

[ckessel]

The aftermarket air systems are on permanent recirculating. Any outside air sources get blocked off on the firewall and cowl. As far as the actual dash structure, someone else in the know may chime in for you. If you are not concerned on outlet appearance being oe looking, Restomod air has a massive amount of choices available.
restomodair.com

 

[rklewis1005]

The aftermarket air systems are on permanent recirculating. Any outside air sources get blocked off on the firewall and cowl. As far as the actual dash structure, someone else in the know may chime in for you. If you are not concerned on outlet appearance being oe looking, Restomod air has a massive amount of choices available.
restomodair.com

Thanks for the info - the trunk-mounted one looks interesting. I'm going to do a bit of research before deciding.

 

[ckessel]

I've made the firewall mounting already for their Haymaker unit. Rented the mockup case, made the mount brackets and welded those to the firewall. Down the road I'll do the deed.

 

[rklewis1005]

Stripped the doors down. A little to finish on the driver's side - that weird mirror adjustment bezel nut isn't coming off. I ordered a tool to help remove it. Needle nose pliers & grinder wheel tool didn't work