Aluminum heads make sense for this build?

[Inspector71]

Street driven car, 1971 360, 350 to 375 hp, aluminum intake 4 bbl, headers. Other than weight, with such a build in mind, would aluminum heads be worth the extra cost over iron heads? If not, what should I ask the machine shop to do to the iron heads? Thanks in advance.

 

[lewtot184]

i'd probably just put a 340 intake valve in the iron heads with a bowl blend. what's edelbrocks,..$1500? i guess it depends on your budget.

 

[Hemirunner]

i'd probably just put a 340 intake valve in the iron heads with a bowl blend. what's edelbrocks,..$1500? i guess it depends on your budget.

By the time you have them baked, blasted and magged, buy valves, seat rings, new guides, and pay to have the seats installed, cut and the valve job done, the guides installed, reamed and honed, machine the tops for spring clearance and positive style valve seals, and then whack the decks flat, you'll spend the same money and get less cylinder head. Buy a set of performer heads and have the shop give them a look over before you bolt them on.

 

[Kern Dog]

Aluminum heads are always good for shaving weight. If the cost of rebuilding an iron set of heads gets near $1000, it makes sense to make the move to the aluminum heads.
Engine Quest sells NEW heads for about half the cost of aluminum Edelbrocks. I believe they also sell a pair of heads with the desireable 5.2 and 5.9 "Magnum" ports but with a traditional shaft mount rocker design. THESE are less prone to cracking too

 

[Budnicks]

By the time you have them baked, blasted and magged, buy valves, seat rings, new guides, and pay to have the seats installed, cut and the valve job done, the guides installed, reamed and honed, machine the tops for spring clearance and positive style valve seals, and then whack the decks flat, you'll spend the same money and get less cylinder head. Buy a set of performer heads and have the shop give them a look over before you bolt them on.

:iamwithstupid: Also if you have any port or pocket work done {should be mandatory on a performance build}, on-top of what you mentioned above, you have a much better head... but for about the same cost you can get a good aluminum aftermarket head, that will have new technology & parts, larger intake & exhaust valves, that will out flow them stockers {probably even if ported} & be lighter too boot... win ! win ! win !, that's if you actually do your stock Iron heads right, for any type performance build, it can cost as much as a new set of aluminum Edelbrock RPM Performer's easily...

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Mopar Performance Magnum R/T {big valve}, then also RHS {if you have to have cast iron} or INDY are also all good ideas/parts to look into...

 

[lewtot184]

i ain't with you guys on this one. 350hp doesn't need aftermarket heads. nobody needs to do all the crap you guys have stated for that power level.

 

[Hemirunner]

i ain't with you guys on this one. 350hp doesn't need aftermarket heads. nobody needs to do all the crap you guys have stated for that power level.

Everything I stated were BASIC head rebuilding 101 operations. Iron heads are paperweights or doorstops. You are correct in that a 350hp build doesn't need an aluminum head. The pure economics are that iron heads just aren't worth the investment as new aluminum heads don't cost that much more. One thing I see very often is a 350hp build that turns into a 500hp build half way through. I see guys spend bad money twice when they could have just spent good money once.

 

[IQ52]

It's the same old story. If the machine shop doesn't know what to do to your heads to get the horsepower you are looking for................you're......at......the.......wrong........machine/engine......shop.

Nothing wrong with you having a preference on the head you would like to run, but if you have to tell them how to prepare it..........bad news.

 

[rumblefish360]

A lot depends on what part of the country your in and the actual machinists charges.
350/375HP out of a stock J head is easy to do without making a stressed out engine in Order to do it. A dead stock hi-comp 340 with headers, dual exhaust and a open air cleaner makes right close near 325HP. Replace the stocker cam for the replacement upgraded 340 cam and you'll get 25hp+ more no problem! All with a stock port head.

 

[Meep-Meep]

And a lot of this argument hinges on if the aluminum heads are literally a clean up and bolt on affair. If you have to do anything to fix the new Al heads you are getting farther away from the good deal. A set of iron heads given to a GOOD SHOP will be correct the first time and a truly bolt on part.

I also agree that 350 HP doesn't need any special head. Just good basic machine work, pocket port and the proper cam installed. Don't forget that MoPars made good power with minimally modified iron heads prior to the advent of cheap aftermarket aluminum heads. All out race is where you spent all your money at Mondello's shop - but got results! None of this is new guys. The only difference now is economics.

 

[Budnicks]

i ain't with you guys on this one. 350hp doesn't need aftermarket heads. nobody needs to do all the crap you guys have stated for that power level.

:iamwithstupid: yeah, your right, a cam change & a decent intake/carb combo & headers can do the job... but it's just not as efficient or capable of what the little engine could be, if it had a good set of heads, even ported cast iron heads & still maintain all it's drivability & reliability, thru out it's RPM range PERIOD... it's all about how you spend the money & not just how much you spend either... if you want the best performance go with ported cylinder heads, even a pocket port job & a multi angle performance valve job, will drastically improve the capability of the engine, even in stock form everywhere else... a very smart Professional Engine builder once told me if you want to make great usable power in any performance or race engine, it's just a big air pump, there's 4 things you need to address, #1 Cylinder heads, #2 Cylinder heads, #3 Cylinder heads, #4 Your budget for how much to spend on them Cylinder heads... my $0.06 cents now

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And a lot of this argument hinges on if the aluminum heads are literally a clean up and bolt on affair. If you have to do anything to fix the new Al heads you are getting farther away from the good deal. A set of iron heads given to a GOOD SHOP will be correct the first time and a truly bolt on part.

I also agree that 350 HP doesn't need any special head. Just good basic machine work, pocket port and the proper cam installed. Don't forget that MoPars made good power with minimally modified iron heads prior to the advent of cheap aftermarket aluminum heads. All out race is where you spent all your money at Mondello's shop - but got results! None of this is new guys. The only difference now is economics.

The heads are hands down the biggest choke point on any Mopar engine, especially for a performance type build, they always have been, except for the Max Wedge's or Hemi's... Probably the part that will help to make the biggest differences in you build too... Just don't go cheap when it comes to your cylinder heads, what ever style you prefer...

 

[Kern Dog]

I wish that Budnicks was more expressive about his opinions. That guy just refuses to elaborate....

 

[Inspector71]

Thanks for these informed replies. I have the advantage of knowing nothing so I am all ears and I have learned a great deal from this forum especially this one. I can see the power range being 350 to 380ish hp but not much more. It is for a car I plan to drive a lot. The really nasty hp I am saving for my 68 Charger project. Again, thanks for the great replies it has been a big help.

 

[rumblefish360]

:iamwithstupid: yeah, your right, a cam change & a decent intake/carb combo & headers can do the job... but it's just not as efficient or capable of what the little engine could be, if it had a good set of heads, even ported cast iron heads & still maintain all it's drivability & reliability, thru out it's RPM range PERIOD...

This is problematic thinking though it is correct. HUH? A catch 22? Yea, it's true, I agree to a degree. If this line of thinking is followed every time, then, everyone should just stop! Throw out what they have and run W8's with a twin turbo set up.

After all, this would be the top of the line (?) for efficient power making now right. Screw the cost because it pays in power, right?

The fact is, he can make 360 HP via just a copy of the early MP create engines. Stock heads there buddy! Woo-Hoo! Do you need 20 extra HP? The Magnum headed version was 380 HP with.....stock heads. YEA Buddy! Is the cost of Magnums worth it or is it just something someone may want to run? No matter, both have stock heads. The power was made.

He can use the heads he has, rebuild them cheaper than the Edelbrocks, save money and probably still have enough for a bowl porting (Depending on machinist and area of the country) for more power.

While it will not out flow the advertised numbers of the Edelbrock head, how often does a Edelbrock head flow what they say it does? Even if it does, the amount of shouting around the web says have them checked out to be sure there good to go. Well, that's more money spent on top of the purchase price. Currently $1529 a pair from Summit racing. So we are at %1529 plus a trip to the machinist at an additional cost of?

The stock head can fit the bill well. If he wants an aluminum head just to have an aluminum head, that is different and fine.

 

[Budnicks]

Opinions vary vastly "Buddy", I gave mine, you have yours & like I said "you can do it with the original stuff too", with just some easy parts swaps.... I tend to prefer the new technology, when budget allows & I always will, I'm not rich either, but I'm also not a cheap a$$ either... seem to me allot of the Mopar purist crowd will always prefer old technology over new stuff... especially Cast Iron vs Aluminum & the MP Magnum R/T heads {especially the big valve versions} are just as expensive probably, when all said & done, as a set of lighter Aluminum heads... It's all about your budget, your willingness to except what's new or some change, or keeping it all pure Mopar parts... I've always been a day 2 type guy, not a purist either.... To each there own... It's yours to do what you want with it, I just gave a suggestion on what I would do "Buddy"...

not everyone thinks like I do, Obviously & I don't expect them to either...

 

[rumblefish360]

Wow! A little thick on assumption aren't we! I just made my point and certainly didn't need your post explaining that you made your point. Jeez!

Also, when I wrote "Buddy", it was not in referance to you. Sorry you took it like I was calling you "Buddy." It's just a saying. In example when someone wins at OTB they yell, "Yea Buddy!" In joy of there winning horse.

I just don't see a point In purchasing a new set of $1500 heads when stock rebuilt will do the job just fine.

Get beat up on the net alot? Soooo defensive. Take a break from the net.

 

[Budnicks]

A little thick on assumptions...LOL... making friends all over the place are we, no ill will was ever meant... like I said "opinions will vary vastly" a good honest well thought out discussion, with out assumptions, is always a good thing !!

 

[383man]

Nothing wrong with getting a little more hp then you wanted. I would go with the aluminum heads in heartbeat. Ron

 

[coloradodave]

Thanks, Ron. Just when this was winding down...lol