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American Powertrain Hydramax T.O. bearing, shims, collar TOO SMALL! They screwed up...

MOPAR resto-mod:
View attachment 972802
I have felt your pain...
Good luck Mr. Bio!
Oh, thanks...
It's not so bad. I had a much bigger work related problem that ran throughout the day, and then the FORD parts to replace a really unnecessary first mistake by AP just was icing on a crap cake.
Sad thing is I feel like they are related.
Too few people care about what their work product or labor says about them.
In other words too few people care.
Can it be possible that there are those many people who allow lying, or total disregard for the level of performance expected to be delivered as a bare minimum by so many service or product providers to just go unchallenged?
I know I only have to answer to myself and that alone makes substandard performance unbearable .
 
I wonder a LOT of that work ethic/service for others stuff myself.
Hang in there, most of the 'bad' is behind you now, isn't it?
 
I wonder a LOT of that work ethic/service for others stuff myself.
Hang in there, most of the 'bad' is behind you now, isn't it?
Yeah, mainly because it has to be regarding work, and regarding my car, there aren't too many other pieces parts that can be missing or not thought of or WRONG, or procured... or added to a later list because it isn't efficient or beneficial to do it now. Fortunately, my mechanic is an enthusiast, certainly for my car, and it's all about doing what we're doing the right, best, strongest way.
 
So....
Here's a follow up.
AP sent out the 3rd TO bearing kit.
Recap:
*The first one I ordered, had "Passon Performance a855" on the order form, and I don't remember (It was last October) if they asked me the input shaft spline count, or "What transmission is the 855 like?" but of course I would say the "Hemi" 18 spline a833...They sent me the 23 spline kit, TO bearing, shims, and floating carrier aka anti spin spacer ALL too small inside diameter.
*The replacement they sent about 2½ weeks ago, and a shipping label to send the first one back, was a Ford part number and had "Ford" only in every description of it, and had "Ford" engraved and highlighted in white on the blue anodized anti spin spacer. No explanation or forewarning that "The 18 spline Mopar is a special order, and the one we sent is the indicated substitute" No thank you, I will wait for the "special order" Mopar specific kit.
*The last one they sent, which is now installed in my car, still had "Ford" on the blue anodized anti spin spacer, but supposedly the TO bearing was a smaller diameter to fit the (nose cone) input shaft bearing retainer. Now if that's the case, how in the hell was the 2nd (Ford) TO bearing with a larger inside diameter supposed to work? It seems to me like the ONLY difference between the 2nd one I got and the "special order" one that is installed was...the label on the box!
:wtf: :BangHead:
But wait! There's more..:nutkick:
The 3 scenarios for installation are:
Use the anti spin spacer and some of the shims
OR
Use just the spacer
OR
Replace the top right bearing retainer (nose cone) bolt with the supplied threaded stud, and some shims.
WELL it seems like a LOT of Mopar installations can't do ANY of those things. The spacer is too thick, the entire pack of shims isn't thick enough. I actually saw a video by doing a web search where a customer with a McLeod diaphragm style pressure plate (like I have) had to use all of the shims and then machine 2 hardened large washers they were lucky enough to have and be able to machine in order to get the correct gap between the TO bearing surface and the fingers of the pressure plate!
Well in my case the mechanic was able to determine the required spacer thickness that needed to be in place and had the blue anodized anti spin spacer machined down to make the gap .135. Normally the gap target is .150, no less than .100 and no more than .200. As the disc wears, the fingers "stand up more" taking up some space in the gap. If the gap is too small (.100 or less) as the finger rise, they could contact the TO bearing and make the clutch slip. Too much gap (.200+) and the clutch may not release. Since my disc is about 2 years old, I think .135 is perfect.
My mechanic, the shop owner, is knowledgeable, and extremely detail oriented, proactive kind of mechanic a customer like me needs. Too many people wouldn't think of compensating for a slightly worn disc. He also replaced all of my bellhousing bolts, helicoiled some threaded holes that REALLY needed it, replaced one starter bolt with a stud. I have had problems with one of the transmission to bellhousing bolts getting loose. He said stainless steel bolts are notorious for backing out. Irregardless of the "why" I've had problems with bolts getting loose, now ALL of them are top grade hardened bolts, and he used ARP bolts to hold the bellhousing to the block.
I am VERY happy to have him doing the work, and I am going into the next phase of driving and racing my car with a new found degree of security and peace of mind so I can focus on tuning the Assassin traction bars, front and rear shocks, and dialing in the HitMaster launch control. I also know that the work done will not have to be redone or upgraded once my much more powerful stroker motor goes in, I'll just have some new additional upgrades to make.
One final note: Even though I bought a pair of each of the 3 degrees of offset Robb Mc dowels for the bellhousing, the stock 0° dowels were what was needed, and Robb Mc had already said I could return any unused dowels for full refund. The Brownell runout jig I bought for $175 was worth me being absolutely certain that the bellhousing runout is well within the .010 total runout allowed.
Here's a picture of my TO bearing setup:
20200721_163112.jpg

Hopefully the side of the blue spacer that had "Ford" on it was the side they machined off...lol!
 
PRAISE REPORT!!
:thumbsup: :lowdown: Hydramax :bananadance:
I was so excited, so unexpectedly HAPPILY SURPRISED when I went to the shop where my Roadrunner is today to pick up my Dakota Digital VHX gauges, so I can ship them off to the guy who took advantage of the killer $700 sale price I sold my BNIB DD setup for. It's fortunate, but costly, that Mopar Connection Magazine just happened to have an article on the RTX DD system, and after several days of weighing the cost/benefit and practical uses I anticipate, of the differences between the functionality of the two, I decided to go with the RTX. More on that later...
Here's what I'm so ecstatic about...:bananadance:
I figured that the Hydramax hydraulic throwout bearing would give me a little less resistance in actuating my 2,950 pound clamping force McLeod diaphragm style pressure plate. I figured it may be a little "smoother" than the old mechanical clunky Z bar with its various bushings and clips and multiple components' various pivot points...I also HAD to have a hydraulic TO bearing in order to use the HitMaster launch control system, which works on hydraulics and electronic timer technology vs the ClutchTamer which is basically mechanical.
Well let me tell you, I used to BRUTALIZE my left knee after a day of stop and go traffic at Cruisin the Coast, and generally the clutch pedal let you know the pressure plate was an opposing force to be reckoned with. THE HYDRAMAX MAKES IT SO EASY, I CAN PUSH THE CLUTCH IN WITH MY HAND!
:bananadance::bananaweed::drinks::thumbsup::):D:bananadance:
Unbelievable!!
I was so excited I called AP tech support and let them know how HUGE of a difference it made.
For anyone who suffers from physical difficulties and/or pain in working their clutch, or just want the smoothest, easiest clutch operation I've ever experienced (I had a hydraulic clutch in my 89 Conquest TSi, and this one is better!) or want to use the HitMaster launch control system, GET THE HYDRAMAX, just get it, don't "think about it" GET IT!
My mechanic did a great job insulating (red-orange silicone composite shielding material) hydraulic fluid braided lines to and from the fluid reservoir, the bearing, and the HitMaster solenoid. This guy is fantastic!
20200723_145214.jpg
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20200723_125917.jpg
20200723_130004.jpg
20200723_145338.jpg
20200723_130211.jpg
 
How long before you're smoking the tires?
I was told from the day of "the deal" that it would be finished in September, Labor day maybe. The "backordered" RTX gauges is probably 4-5 weeks out, but the gauges were going to be the last item installed anyway.
So soon thereafter. Hopefully once I get the HitMaster launch control dialed in, the only tire smoking will be from the newly installed line lock and Wilwood 4 wheel disc brakes when I’m heating 'em up approaching the staging line...
Or on the street when I feel like it...
:thumbsup: :steering:
 
Nice write-up, thanks! What size master cylinder did you use, 3/4"? I want to use a Quartermaster 721100 TOB and it should be pretty similar to the Hydramax.
 
Whatever came with it.
You're the 2nd person to bring that up in the last day. I'll ask.
 
Glad to hear you got it sorted out!
 
Oh yeah, me too. I was quick to call tech support and let them know (along with all of you and others) how happy I am at the unexpected bonus of making the clutch so much easier to manage, easier to push the pedal down, NIGHT AND DAY DIFFERENCE!
 
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