another 318 Build question: Heads/Cam

[TopBanana72]

OK, new plan. I called Comp but they were not that helpful and stuff out of stock too. Called Hughes and got on with Dave who recommended HUG SEH1016AL-12
SB HYD FLAT TAPPET CAM 210/216 -112ºLSA

for my build and purpose of car. And...... He said it was my lucky day and cam, lifter and spring kit for that was in stock!

 

[toolmanmike]

OK, new plan. I called Comp but they were not that helpful and stuff out of stock too. Called Hughes and got on with Dave who recommended HUG SEH1016AL-12
SB HYD FLAT TAPPET CAM 210/216 -112ºLSA

for my build and purpose of car. And...... He said it was my lucky day and cam, lifter and spring kit for that was in stock!

Should be a fun one.

 

[YY1]

You went form 420/430 lift to 480/495?

That's quite a jump.

 

[TopBanana72]

You went form 420/430 lift to 480/495?

That's quite a jump.

Ya... It's one of their milder cams though. I think the 112 LSA makes for better idle and good vacuum. I'm looking forward to see how it does. I'll report back the performance of the engine once it's together in a couple weeks.

 

[451Mopar]

I think the engine compression ratio will be around 9.6:1? I haven't ran the exact numbers, but it should have decent compression that will work nice with the Hughes cam. I think your going to like the cam.

Get the FBO distributor limit plate with advance springs, and maybe the tuning guide if you haven't done much tuning before.
http://4secondsflat.com/Mopar Mechanical timing limiter plate.htm

 

[TopBanana72]

I think the engine compression ratio will be around 9.6:1? I haven't ran the exact numbers, but it should have decent compression that will work nice with the Hughes cam. I think your going to like the cam.

Agreed, I told Dave the CR would be "about" 9.7:1 and everything else about the build and the car purpose. I think Dave is smart about this choice.

 

[451Mopar]

I ran that cam in my mild 9.5:1 compression 360 and liked it, factory converter, but the higher stall version. I think a CR10H version for a 727, rated 2,100-2,400 RPM. With the 904, not sure if the factory high stall is the CR79 (2,200-2,400 stall), or the CR8H (catalog just notes high stall, no rpm range?)
This is from the Transtar converter catalog.

https://www.transtar1.com/download....que+converter/TorqueConverterCatalog_2012.pdf

A quick search shows O'Relly auto sells the cr10H for $78.99. The 904 CR8H shows $90.99 either has a $30 core charge. Those listed from O'Relly are "PRO-KING" brand?

I have a Transtar warehouse not too far from my house, and when I was talking to the salesman I think he said they have some converters rebuilt locally.
They offered an option to get have the converter with better internal parts, called it a heavy duty version, and I think it cost around $60 more on top the cost of the base converter price.

 

[YY1]

You realize the 484 lift Mopar cam was considered a "big" cam for the 383, right?

 

[Curiousyellow71]

You realize the 484 lift Mopar cam was considered a "big" cam for the 383, right?

Duration is what gives a cam its rpm range. You can run a .600 lift cam that won't hardly lope.
The hughes 210/[email protected] on 112 is certainly not big and should make torque...the mp .484 is [email protected], Durations and lsa are what determines power band rpm range. The lift is a function of the cams profile. If the heads flow more at a certain lift it should make more power with more lift. Sometimes it's a modest gain or no gain and that largely depends on the heads and how they flow. If the heads max out at .450 it won't help. Head porting and more lift usually go well together. A lot of stock heads run out of steam .450 to .500 lift.

 

[YY1]

Once again, a mild 318 thread has the OP milling the valve guides and buying a high stall converter.

Although he did intend to buy replacement heads.

 

[toolmanmike]

You realize the 484 lift Mopar cam was considered a "big" cam for the 383, right?

3/4 race!

 

[PRHeads]

Make sure to check the retainer to seal clearance for the lift of the new cam.
You’d like at least .050” additional travel before the retainer contacts the seal.

 

[451Mopar]

Once again, a mild 318 thread has the OP milling the valve guides and buying a high stall converter.

Although he did intend to buy replacement heads.

I don't know about the 302 heads, but on my heads I didn't need to cut down the valve guides, and he dosen't really need to change the converter. I was just mentioning I used a factory high stall version, and they are not that expensive. I had to change my converter for two reasons. first the original owner put the wrong flexplate to converter bolts that were too long and punctured the converter, and I had the engine (360) balanced with the B&M counter balance flexplate, so I need a converter with no weights on it.

As mentioned by YY1, it is the duration and overlap (a combination of duration and lobe separation angle) that determines the cams application (RPM range.)
The lift determines the head flow. The Hughes cam takes advantage of the larger diameter 0.904" lifter to accelerate the cam lobes quicker, so the valves open more in the same duration as a milider profile cam designed for something like a GM small blocks 0.842" lifter diameter.

A Hughes can with about the same 0.050" duration as the Mopar 284/0.484" cam might be like the Hughes 236/242 @ 0.050" cam that has 0.546"/0.563" lift numbers in a cam with about the same duration as the 284/0.484" cam.

 

[TopBanana72]

OK, new plan. I called Comp but they were not that helpful and stuff out of stock too. Called Hughes and got on with Dave who recommended HUG SEH1016AL-12
SB HYD FLAT TAPPET CAM 210/216 -112ºLSA

for my build and purpose of car. And...... He said it was my lucky day and cam, lifter and spring kit for that was in stock!

Replying to my own thread... FAIL! Hughes screwed me. My kit was NOT in stock. Waited about 10 days wondering where my kit was. Called them back, guy called "James" said my order was on back order, with no anticipated date. I understand the way shortages are now, but don't lie to me. They may have good cams, but I don't like these guys anymore.

 

[451Mopar]

Wow, I didn't know the shortages were that bad.

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Wow, I didn't know the shortages were that bad.

Its apparently getting worse. When I visited with our manufacture who does parts for us... 2 weeks ago he said 8-10 weeks wait. Today I received the quote for the order he said 12 weeks...and he expects it to get worse. And this is for parts out of mild steel plate. We went to our big furniture store for a dishwasher...anything made by Bosch is out of stock till November, and then its a maybe.

It is a bummer hughes messed up. My guess it was an error on their part for what they have in stock, but its a let down all the same. It's been a couple months since we to talked with Tim Goolsby at bullet cams. They could grind you a custom cam close to the hughes if they have a core...maybe even improve it slightly. It will be more money, but not really out of line for a custom. A cam grinder is more likely to have cam cores in stock first then a company like Hughes who is not a cam grinder. Howards grinds for them and you can duplicate that cam through a Howard's lobe list. You could check with Howards as well.

 

[TopBanana72]

Its apparently getting worse. When I visited with our manufacture who does parts for us... 2 weeks ago he said 8-10 weeks wait. Today I received the quote for the order he said 12 weeks...and he expects it to get worse. And this is for parts out of mild steel plate. We went to our big furniture store for a dishwasher...anything made by Bosch is out of stock till November, and then its a maybe.

It is a bummer hughes messed up. My guess it was an error on their part for what they have in stock, but its a let down all the same. It's been a couple months since we to talked with Tim Goolsby at bullet cams. They could grind you a custom cam close to the hughes if they have a core...maybe even improve it slightly. It will be more money, but not really out of line for a custom. A cam grinder is more likely to have cam cores in stock first then a company like Hughes who is not a cam grinder. Howards grinds for them and you can duplicate that cam through a Howard's lobe list. You could check with Howards as well.

I ordered a mild Summit cam that was definitely in stock and some Elgin stock lifters and push rods and will throw them in to get this build done already. Maybe I'll look at a cam swap later. This way I can get my car on the road... I'm missing out the good weather. Plus, Carlisle is coming up and I am definatel;y going.