Uh huh.
Another plane crash
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I think some are getting this plane incident mixed up with the one in DC.
I just heard they found the "black box" from the Lear jet.
I just heard they found the "black box" from the Lear jet.
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Exactly what I'm fearing here....in both instances, sadly.
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I hope the data recorder can be downloaded.
XS22J8R
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I have lots of experience flying in instrument conditions and have had spatial disorientation a few times.
There’s a pilot saying that you hope your bag of experience fills up before your bag of luck runs out.
I think that might have been true with the two situations I’ve had with spatial disorientation in instrument flying. Back around 1990 not long after earning my instrument rating, I took a Cessna 172 up one evening after dark to fly to an airport about 45 miles away and then return. I filed an instrument fight plan even though the cloud deck was a bit higher than my planned flight. 4000’ is what I recall.
I hoped to get a little cloud time to utilize my fresh rating.
I flew there in visual conditions, and then picked up my clearance home. ATC cleared me to climb to a higher altitude than my first leg had been, and as I neared my assigned altitude I got in the clouds. Yey! Except almost immediately I felt like I’d been thrown into a wild disco and given LSD! Fortunately the one corner of my spinning brain that was still functioning realized that the wingtip strobe lights flashing in the clouds was what was screwing me up. I reached down and switched off the strobes, and then my brain settled down as quick as it had went haywire. This all happened in a matter of seconds and I didn’t loose control of the plane.
I’ll never forget those few seconds.
10 or 12 years later I was flying a couple people from Illinois to the north woods of Wisconsin at night in a twin Cessna. When we got there it was hazy, and I had my first experience with another aviation killer called “black hole effect” landing at an airport in the middle of a dark area with no lighting aids there to help judge altitude. That’s a different hanger tale, other to say I thought up a plan including abort the landing and go elsewhere as a plan B if my plan A to get safety down at that airport didn’t work. It worked, I didn’t hit the trees and I was quite proud of myself. After I got through dropping off my passengers and patting myself on my back for my landing, I took off to head home. I started climbing and bam! Just like that time in 1990 my head was swimming! I forced myself to glue my eyes to the attitude indicator (artificial horizon if you prefer) and believe it, to keep my wings level and nose pitched up in a climb. Last time this happened it was strobes, what now??? Ahhh, I know, it’s the landing lights reflecting off the haze in the murky dark night!! I kept my eyes on the AI while groping a panel on my left side to turn off my landing lights. Lights off, head stopped swimming. My bag of experience saved me! Funny aside, the landing lights on that twin retracted into the tip fuel tanks, and there was a 3 way switch controlling them, retracted, extended but off, and extended and on. My trip home seemed really slow, headwinds must be higher than forecast. When I got near home, I configured the plane for landing, including putting the landing lights on. I went to use the light switch and it was in the extended but off position not retracted. In my panic earlier I’d not retracted them. They were like air brakes knocking airspeed down 5-10 knots, that is why my trip home was slow.
Before a certain tinpot 3rd world dictator bulldozed the runway in the middle of the night, there were several fatal night accidents taking off from lakefront Meigs airport, where pilots lost control after lifting off the runway into the murk. Same has happened at Burke Lakefront in Cleveland. Experienced pilots, the most recent I remember at Burke was flying a citation jet.
It’s real, it comes on fast and it’s scary. Spatial disorientation is no joke and very well could be the reason that fast Learjet with bright landing lights lost control climbing into a low cloud deck at night. Or maybe not, hopefully the NTSB can figure it out.
Coincidentally yesterday me and a buddy of mine who is an NTSB investigator got together to use a flight simulator. He’s been on call this past week and I asked him if the Lear crash was under part 91 or part 135 (charter). We think it was 135. I think he just gets assigned 91 crashes. He said he’s glad he’s not on that investigation. They will pick up every scrap left of that disintegrated jet, take it all to a hanger or warehouse, and piece it all together, not actually reassemble it, but lay it out like working the mother of all jigsaw puzzles, to search for clues of what happened. A tedious job that will take a ton of time, so he’s glad he’s not tasked with that!
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I've always liked this Pilot Debrief channel. He has professional takes on these things.
He talks about the Philadelphia incident at the 39:40 mark
He talks about the Philadelphia incident at the 39:40 mark
So far. They said this morning that could change. By the look of the burned out vehicles in the street, I wouldn't be surprised if it does change, unfortunately.
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It got removed because of politics.
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Should have removed the politics or moved it to the PF. That was a good thread with good discussion and information. Someone is trigger happy.
Not trigger happy. You guys should know better than to talk politics in General forums. It's against the site guidelines.
Triplegreen500
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I started a thread on the same subject, in the pf, the night of the crash. I searched the pf and didn't see one so I started a fresh one there, since it is now the NEWS and political forum. It was merged into the thread that got deleted.
Some of us are trying.
Some of us are trying.
Some of you are trying and some aren't. We will clean up a thread if just a few posts need removed. If it is going off the rails, it either get's moved or removed. Our choice. I choose to remove them because there is no reason to add another log onto the fire over at the News and politics forum. You people are here for car discussions. The N&P forum is a place for you to go to discuss politics and not spill over onto the general forums. Those are the rules.
Triplegreen500
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I
It is, after all, now called the "NEWS and political forum"....
Guess I'm just curious why my thread was moved to the General and merged, instead of the now-deleted thread moved to the pf and merged into mine. I don't give a damn about scores or counts (wouldn't even know where to track them), it just seems to make more sense to me.
It is, after all, now called the "NEWS and political forum"....
Aparently there was some merging and moving I wasn't aware of. When I read through it and most of the posts had political comments I removed it. Done deal. If you or someone else starts or comments in a thread and it is politicsl in nature, and we see it, expect it to be edited, posts deleted, the thread moved, or removed as we see fit. If you don't want your post deleted then post it in the right place and not in a General forum thread.
Triplegreen500
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I did.
Unfortunate luck, I suppose.
Wish the weather was nicer, and I could actually do something with my charger besides look at it in the garage ...
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