Bergman/Borgeson Recommendations on 383 Magnum Charger

[MoparGuy68]

Perfect timing for this Bergman forum section to appear!

I have a 1971 Dodge Charger Super Bee 383 Magnum that I want to install the Borgeson 800126 steering gearbox into. I'd like to use your Mopar Direct Fit Coupler #2136 to connect my steering column to the Borgeson gearbox. Since you said you have extensive experience with these systems, you seem to be the best person to answer my questions. I'm trying to determine all the components I will need and what my options are to go about actually removing the existing stock PS gearbox and installing the Borgeson box.

This is my situation. I bought this car about a month ago. The car appears to be a factory PS car, or at least has a factory PS system in it, with the Saginaw style pump and a 1 1/8” sector output shaft. The gearbox leaks profusely and the entire system has been running DEX/MERC ATF fluid for a couple of years, ever since the leaking began. So it has been constantly topped off with ATF.

I want to start fresh and run a system with pure PS fluid that has not been contaminated with ATF, so I want to replace the pump and hoses/metal lines also. Because this is a matching numbers drivetrain car, I don't want to modify the steering column so it could be converted back to stock by a future owner if they choose to do so.

The car is running long tube exhaust headers. These headers are going to make it a challenge, especially, to remove the stock gearbox. I’ve included several photos of my current setup to aid in answering my questions below:

1) If I remove the driver side torsion bar, do you think I’ll be able to unbolt and remove the stock gearbox, without having to unbolt/remove the driver side header and starter motor?

2) I thought of possibly unbolting the motor mounts and jacking up the engine, but I was told that with my long tube headers still attached to the engine, I may not be able raise it enough. That the headers would prevent raising the engine if they were not unbolted. If that is truly the case, then raising the engine seems pointless. What do you think?

3) How does your Direct Fit coupler differ from the the stock coupler? I know it is supposed to not require shortening of the factory Power Steering column. What is different about the coupler, as it looks similar to the factory coupler?

4) What is the difference between your Pump and the Borgeson Pump? Is your pump a remanufactured factory Saginaw unit? Borgeson states their pump is newly manufactured. Borgeson Pump only uses one front facing bracket, why is that? You have both front and rear facing mounting brackets, but your rear bracket looks different that the rear bracket currently on my car. Your front bracket appears identical to my front bracket. Does the Borgeson Big Block PS Pump kit 800338, use the same diameter PS pulley and belt as my existing stock unit?

5) Borgeson recommends using one of their Fluid Coolers in a Big Block installation. My car is in Phoenix and will be exposed to 115+ degree heat in the summer months. Should I go with the larger 5”x9” Cooler, and if so where is the best place to locate the Cooler on a 1971 Charger?

6) The stock box currently sits flush and secure to the K-Frame. Will I need to grind on my K-Frame mounting bolt areas or on the Borgeson box itself, so that it will fit securely and flush to the K-Frame?

Your help is much appreciated!

 

[tonysrt]

I've done two installations of the borgeson box, a 71 Cuda with Gen 2 Hemi and stock manifolds and it was very easy. The Duster on the other hand has no room, removing stock box with stock manifolds and 2 1/2 exhaust was a lot harder because I had to drop starter and exhaust pipe to the h pipe. Installing the Borgeson box was a lot easier with everything out of the way. A B body install has to be easier than in a Duster.

 

[Billccm]

I'm curious about the box removal process, too. I've seen a few YouTube videos showing that removal with the torsion bar out was straightforward.

 

[tonysrt]

Although it might be easier, I didn't touch the torsion bar for either cars to remove old box.

 

[watermelon]

on my 66 coronet 440 w/manifolds the factory steering gear came out the bottom. the borgeson went in through the bottom for install

i think i loosened the torsion bars screws but the torsion bars did not have to be removed


watermelon

 

[GMachineDartgt]

Perfect timing for this Bergman forum section to appear!

I have a 1971 Dodge Charger Super Bee 383 Magnum that I want to install the Borgeson 800126 steering gearbox into. I'd like to use your Mopar Direct Fit Coupler #2136 to connect my steering column to the Borgeson gearbox. Since you said you have extensive experience with these systems, you seem to be the best person to answer my questions. I'm trying to determine all the components I will need and what my options are to go about actually removing the existing stock PS gearbox and installing the Borgeson box.

This is my situation. I bought this car about a month ago. The car appears to be a factory PS car, or at least has a factory PS system in it, with the Saginaw style pump and a 1 1/8” sector output shaft. The gearbox leaks profusely and the entire system has been running DEX/MERC ATF fluid for a couple of years, ever since the leaking began. So it has been constantly topped off with ATF.

I want to start fresh and run a system with pure PS fluid that has not been contaminated with ATF, so I want to replace the pump and hoses/metal lines also. Because this is a matching numbers drivetrain car, I don't want to modify the steering column so it could be converted back to stock by a future owner if they choose to do so.

The car is running long tube exhaust headers. These headers are going to make it a challenge, especially, to remove the stock gearbox. I’ve included several photos of my current setup to aid in answering my questions below:

1) If I remove the driver side torsion bar, do you think I’ll be able to unbolt and remove the stock gearbox, without having to unbolt/remove the driver side header and starter motor?

2) I thought of possibly unbolting the motor mounts and jacking up the engine, but I was told that with my long tube headers still attached to the engine, I may not be able raise it enough. That the headers would prevent raising the engine if they were not unbolted. If that is truly the case, then raising the engine seems pointless. What do you think?

3) How does your Direct Fit coupler differ from the the stock coupler? I know it is supposed to not require shortening of the factory Power Steering column. What is different about the coupler, as it looks similar to the factory coupler?

4) What is the difference between your Pump and the Borgeson Pump? Is your pump a remanufactured factory Saginaw unit? Borgeson states their pump is newly manufactured. Borgeson Pump only uses one front facing bracket, why is that? You have both front and rear facing mounting brackets, but your rear bracket looks different that the rear bracket currently on my car. Your front bracket appears identical to my front bracket. Does the Borgeson Big Block PS Pump kit 800338, use the same diameter PS pulley and belt as my existing stock unit?

5) Borgeson recommends using one of their Fluid Coolers in a Big Block installation. My car is in Phoenix and will be exposed to 115+ degree heat in the summer months. Should I go with the larger 5”x9” Cooler, and if so where is the best place to locate the Cooler on a 1971 Charger?

6) The stock box currently sits flush and secure to the K-Frame. Will I need to grind on my K-Frame mounting bolt areas or on the Borgeson box itself, so that it will fit securely and flush to the K-Frame?

Your help is much appreciated!

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Thanks for the photos. I’m glad we were able to speak on the phone, lot easier that typing! As we spoke, my kit is a direct bolt on without cutting. Your pump is a Saginaw with a keyed shaft, so no issues there. Thank you for the interest.

 

[MoparGuy68]

Thanks for talking with me about this on the phone, and taking a look at this thread.

Next step will be for me to decide whether to attempt the swap myself or have the shop that I mentioned on the phone do it. I might be able to enlist the aid of a friend for a portion of the work if I do it myself. It would be nice to have 4 hands available for certain parts of this job.

I’ll keep in touch and let you know if I will be placing the order or if the shop will.

 

[MoparGuy68]

Peter,

I am posting photos here of my current PS Pump installation, as it seems when I send photos to you in emails, you are not receiving the photos. These show the pump pulley misalignment with the crankshaft pulley, and the current spacers on the water pump. Pump pulley is currently too far forward. Without the spacers the alignment would be even worse, being way too far backwards.

Steve