Best possible 1966 Satellite

[nrand]

Hi folks - I am new here, although I frequently lurk on music forums.
Here is the plan:
To put together the best possible 1966 Satellite for week-end family cruiser, and music gigs [the trunk space is perfect for my gear needs] I thought I would get as many questions out of the way early at once. Based on feedback from here I would begin looking for a car that has been restored and rust free, which has as many improvements as possible.

I love the 66 Satellites with the Street Hemi and 4 speed so this would be a good starting point / alternately a 67 with a 440. [I am not sure whether only the GTXs had the 440 this year] What I would end up with probably would be closer to pro-touring than stock, drivetrain wise. The 66-67 western scroll design upholstery is one of the best I have seen - to my eyes anyway. The only other car that has such a well designed interior is the 63-65 Rivieras, also IMHO of course.

These are my perceived issues:

Apart from gas mileage, the front end weight, handling and braking have a less than ideal reputation on these, so my main question is:

How much weight I can trim by going to aluminum parts wherever possible - even removing and storing the stock motor and other iron/steel parts for later?

I am guessing I don't need more horsepower than stock, understanding that the power to weight ratio benefits could get me into some pretty rare territory power wise anyway.

Are there any disc brake replacement kits that will help, and possibly also save some weight?

Ditto other suspension upgrades? I noticed for example that the 67 GTX had heavy duty torsion bars and anti sway bits as an upgrade for the 440 Commando. Are such parts interchangeable with 66 B Bodies?

Ditto any other parts, radiators, fans, anything?

What is the best engine choice?

How much would such upgrades save on weight and improve handling/performance? I was guessing 200 - 300 pounds max savings.

Am I thinking along correct lines here?

If money were no object, what would you do? [How's this for an all in one question!]

 

[Eddie Mopar]

Good questions mate. Welcome aboard!
I have had 3 1966-67 B bodies. They are a great platform to launch anything you desire.
Disk brake packages are available out there from a few manufacturers. Prices range depending on what you want.
As far as suspension parts, stock and modified pro touring are also very easy to buy.
Chrysler engine, transmission parts are really easy to get and the interchangability is not an issue.
Here's the issue: Body parts...you can get decent repro floor and trunk sheet metal, but when it comes to outer body, the pickens are slim at best for 1966-67. Rust repair panels are out there, but not full fender,quarter panels or doors. Windshields and rear glass are fairly easy as well as lens and bezels for the rear lights. I've been into these cars for over thirty years, trust me, you won't be sorry buying one. Just make sure you buy one from a arid area of the USA.
............cheers, Eddie

 

[Jim Bob The Dancing Bear]

Aluminum heads, intake, water pump, water pump housing, radiator, new style compressor for A/C. I am not sure of the weight savings but there it is considerable.

For suspension there is Hotchkis, Firm Feel for stock style. RMS, CAP, XV and one more that I can't remember for coil over style suspension.

For brakes you can get everything from factory style 11" rotors and single piston flaoting calipers to 14" rotors with Viper calipers and everything in between. Check out Docotor Diff and AR Engineering, SSBC, PST and others for kits.

For the lightest motor I would go for an all aluminum Hemi in the 500+ cubic inch range but my pockets are not that deep. Personally I like the B motors 383 or 400 stroked. That is the direction I am heading for my toy.

 

[nrand]

Good questions mate. Welcome aboard!
I have had 3 1966-67 B bodies. They are a great platform to launch anything you desire........
Here's the issue: Body parts...you can get decent repro floor and trunk sheet metal, but when it comes to outer body, the pickens are slim at best for 1966-67. Rust repair panels are out there, but not full fender,quarter panels or doors. Windshields and rear glass are fairly easy as well as lens and bezels for the rear lights. I've been into these cars for over thirty years, trust me, you won't be sorry buying one. Just make sure you buy one from a arid area of the USA.
............cheers, Eddie

Thanks Eddie and Jim Bob
Regarding bodies, the rust issues are the primary reason I am leaning to looking only at cars which have already been restored.
I used to live in Arizona so I know what you mean about dry climate cars. It seems that most I have seen which claim to be 'restored' are in the midwest, California, and the southeast.

The Charlotte NC area seems to be crawling with enthusiasts and cars - I spent 4 years of my 'youth' at Ft Bragg so it seems muscle culture is alive and well there - but but it is humid there so I try not to get too excited about cars there that look really good.

I have also lived in the midwest so I know about salt on the roads in the day.
All things considered, when it comes to making an initial platform choice I'll need to come back to this forum to for advice on reputable inspectors to help me with the legwork. I am very wary of bondo-mobiles.

Regarding the motor, it looks like money will be the main issue. I have read that the aluminum motor alone would save around 100 lbs, so with everything else you list plus putting the battery in the trunk I should be able to shift the center of gravity a fair bit.

As I read further, I also notice there are some issues with the basic stiffness - or lack of - in the stock unibody construction. Subframe connectors seem like a sensible idea for a number reasons, but this will also put some weight back on. This is possibly something I would do in Australia when I have the car changed to right hand drive.

This article below was pretty well written and he seems happy with the suspension afterwards:
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/...opp_0703_1966_plymouth_satellite/viewall.html

I also found some good threads on the subject here:
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=4745#photo

So much to learn..

 

[66 coronet]

A 66 satellite is not a heavy car to start with around 3200 to 3800 depending on engine and options. there are plenty of companys that make heavy duty suspension components and disc brake conversions, but a disc brake set up is more weight than a drum set up. and for an every day driver i would stay with cast iron heads.

 

[nrand]

A 66 satellite ........ for an every day driver i would stay with cast iron heads.

Thanks
Will you say why cast iron rather than aluminum for a daily driver?

 

[Meep-Meep]

The factory suspension works pretty well with a few simple mods from Firm Feel but I would never sacrifice durability for weight. For weight savings you might consider a fiberglass hood and bumper. Also fenders if they make them. Stripping off undercoating and years of road grime will take weight off too. And seats are deceiving. Pick up a bare seat frame then pick up the thick vinyl upholstery that came off it! Engine wise you can go with a built aluminum head 360 LA and the new Passon aluminum 5 spd.

You must be careful with replacing steel components with aluminum because of the different mechanical properties of the materials. Often the case thicker aluminum parts are required to do the job of thinner steel parts so no real weight savings there. If you want to know how much you will save by removing steel use the steel density figure of .28 lbs / CI and do volume calculations to get an idea. You may find it's not worth the trouble.

 

[nrand]

Going through the posts here and doing more reading elsewhere I am beginning to wonder if maybe a 67 GTX would be a better starting point than the 66 Satellite given the GTX had HD suspension as standard.

According to Old Ride dot com with the intro of the GTXs only three Satellites with hemis were produced in 1967 compared with 800+ in 1966.

That is a big difference so I could not help but wonder if the GTXs better suspension was a selling point.

 

[YY1]

Just a couple of tidbits- except for the front sway bar (and perhaps torsion bar thickness, both "bolt-on" mods), the 67 GTX and all other 66/67 B body suspensions were identical. Convertables and Hemi cars had some additional bracing welded to the unit body structure to help with flex.

Finding a clean GTX will cost you about double what a comprable Satellite would be.
For a rust free driver, I'd guess the low end at 5k for the Sat and closer to 8K absolute bottom for the X. ...and that for a car that still needs lots of work, but has a good body.
For a #2- #3+ car think 15K for the Sat and 30K+ for the GTX.
Don't forget the Belvedere II, as the body is nearly identical.

...but I guess if we're already talking about aluminum Hemi motors, the 30,000 is practically pocket change

,,,and my cost estimates don't apply to Factory Hemi car$.

 

[Jim Bob The Dancing Bear]

I did a Hotchkis TVS suspension with Firm Feel torsion bars for 3k or so. All poly bushings, new ball joints, idler and pitman arm, all new or rebuilt.

 

[Meep-Meep]

Going through the posts here and doing more reading elsewhere I am beginning to wonder if maybe a 67 GTX would be a better starting point than the 66 Satellite given the GTX had HD suspension as standard.

According to Old Ride dot com with the intro of the GTXs only three Satellites with hemis were produced in 1967 compared with 800+ in 1966.

That is a big difference so I could not help but wonder if the GTXs better suspension was a selling point.

The HD suspension claim by the factory is assuming no one has changed anything since new, and by now these cars are so old - and most if not all have been around the block so to speak - anything could have happened. It's a moot point since you can get darn near anything you want in the suspension dept. these days. If you want to build it on a budget get the cheapo 66-67 Belvedere and start throwing parts at it. You can also put GTX badges on a Bel or Sat. I'm sure someone repos them.

 

[YY1]

I had the opportinity to buy one of those 67 Hemi Satellites, actually three opportunities to buy the same car. Once for $500, again for $1500, and a third time for $3000. All within a two year span.

At the time Chrysler claimed that "...all 1967 Plymouth B bodies equipped with the 426 hemi engine were GTX's".

A year later they said 'It appears there may have been as many as 5 built".
That number has grown to somewhere in the 12-15 range since then.

 

[66 coronet]

Thanks
Will you say why cast iron rather than aluminum for a daily driver?

To start with the expansion characteristics of the cast iron versus the aluminum, the aluminum heats and cools much faster than the cast iron its bolted to this constant expansion and contraction is rough on head gaskets Also the since the alumiunm cools so well it lowers your combustion heat that is effect lowers your compression pressure. for a race engine where you want to run 12 or 13 to one compression great but for a street engine you want to drive dependably for 60 or 70 thousand miles stay with cast iron.

 

[Moparpwrstude]

^X2^ on the iron heads. Relocate the battery to the right side of the trunk, aluminum radiator, pump and housing, intake manifold. If numbers matching is unimportant, get a Satellite or plain Belvedere II -add a stout 440 and have some fun.

 

[nrand]

I did a Hotchkis TVS suspension with Firm Feel torsion bars for 3k or so. All poly bushings, new ball joints, idler and pitman arm, all new or rebuilt.

Can you describe the differences these made for handling?

 

[Jim Bob The Dancing Bear]

The difference isn't fair to the original suspension. When I got the car it neededed lots of help. The car came off of the transport idling around 4K. The rest of the car was in about the same mechanical shape but has a great body with very little rust.

As of today I still need to get my front sway bar and sub frame connectors on (I don't have a welder.) The car sits an inch or better lower than stock and it is noticable from the side profile. With the 1.06 torsion bars and seats that need new foam the ride is comparable to a mid 80's camaro with a handeling package my buddy had. The ride is softer than a vette but not as soft as the stock suspension. It feels good and firm and planted. I have the stock 225/70/14 tires and I can take turns with much more gusto without any ill effects except trying to stay in the seat. I wear my seatbelt nice and snug around my waist to keep from sliding to much.

Before the suspension change it needed an alignment really bad. It wondered and had to be returned to center manually. I have manual steering and some pretty warn parts. It is nite and day different but I can not compare it to a stock suspension in good shape.

I can now let go of the steering wheel and it tracks straight down the road. The added caster made a huge difference. The Hotchkis a-arms let me get -1 camber, 4.9 caster on the left and -.9 camber, and 5.4 caster right and 1/8 toe total.

 

[nrand]

The car sits an inch or better lower than stock and it is noticable from the side profile. With the 1.06 torsion bars and seats that need new foam the ride is comparable to a mid 80's camaro with a handeling package my buddy had. The ride is softer than a vette but not as soft as the stock suspension. It feels good and firm and planted. I have the stock 225/70/14 tires and I can take turns with much more gusto without any ill effects except trying to stay in the seat. .......

I can now let go of the steering wheel and it tracks straight down the road. The added caster made a huge difference. The Hotchkis a-arms let me get -1 camber, 4.9 caster on the left and -.9 camber, and 5.4 caster right and 1/8 toe total.

This sounds like a great car. One of the things I have seen a lot of with these in photos is oversized wheels and tires, which for me really destroys the lines and look, for a driver. I can imagine the 1" lowering would make it look just nice something I had not considered before. I found the photos of your charger you posted here - it looks really balanced.

 

[Jim Bob The Dancing Bear]

Thank you for the compliments. It is a work in progress and a daily driver. I will be going with larger tires and rims for better braking and handling. With the 225's that are on it now, they have a hard time stopping the car in a panic stop. I have had one close call where there tires where just about to lock up and where not stopping me in time. The tires are only a year old but to skinny and hard for the car and my aggressive driving style. I drive the car every day to work putting about 1,000 miles a month on the car. She is a hoot.

 

[Sixer]

Thousands upon thousands of late model cars/trucks have iron block/aluminum head combos that work just fine. Head gasket choice, surface finish on the metal, accurate torque values, and cooling system care are critical in ensuring longevity. Aluminum heads will allow a minimum of 1/2 point increase in compression on same fuel octane-pump premium should support 10-1 whereas iron heads 9-1, maybe 9/1/2 to one before detonation problems rise-in general and as an example. This can allow a flat-top piston to be used as opposed to a dished-another plus. The ONLY time I've seen head/head gasket problems on iron/alum combos is either a design flaw from the beginning, an overheat, or poor cooling system maintenance.

 

[YY1]

Before you spend money to lower your Mopar, try adjusting the torsion bars to the height you like. It's quite possible to get the car so low that the tire rubs the fender, just within the factory range.