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Body work

racetiger

Active Member
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7:34 PM
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Location
USA & NZ
Hi

Looking at getting the body work started on my 70 charger. It will need a new roof skin (and maybe into the top of the quarters) and also a new trunk, a couple of other little bits and eventually panel and Paint.

At the moment I would like to get some prices and and idea where to start.

Can anyone recommend a good person or shop (preferably close to Orem Provo where the car is) that knows what they are doing, will do a good job and wont empty my pockets to much.

Thanks

IMG_20110902_163359.jpg
 
First we need to you to answer these questions:

1. How old are you?
2. What kind of health are you in?
3. Do you have any knowledge or experience with body work?
4. Are you married?
5. What are your realistic plans for the car once it's done?
6. What is the maximum amount you realistically want to pay?
7. Do you want a single-stage or double-stage paint job?
8. What color do you want it to be?
9. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most, how patient are you?

BTW, these are all serious questions.
 
Santini in SoCal

I see location as USA and NZ.

If you want it done "right" then you should expect a corresponding pricetag.

We use a shop a few hundred miles to the south of Provo on SoCal called Santini.

Pete and his crew have done SEMA cars for all of the big 3 and they really know how to do it "right".

If you want cheap or right now then they might not be the shop for you.

http://www.santiniusa.com/

Tell them Vince from Earlyrides sent you when and if you call them.

road runner burnin.jpg
 
"A couple of other little bits"......Now that's where the big money is going to go :eusa_whistle:
 
If you want it done "right" then you should expect a corresponding pricetag.

That's why he needs to answer the questions. That's the only way to determine what's "right" for him and his situation. Otherwise there's an excellent chance his car will be showing up on craiglist in an ad that starts "Bodywork all done but lack money/interest to finish it". :) No offense earlyrides, but guys like you who think for paint & body to be done "right" means you have to have a top-notch, expensive as Hell, and takes forever resto done by a shop with a bloated pedigree are what kills more projects than any other player short of wives. :) What's "right" is what best meets the needs of the owner, not what makes the biggest splash at car shows.

- - - Updated - - -

"A couple of other little bits"......Now that's where the big money is going to go :eusa_whistle:

Brother ain't that the truth!!! :)
 
"a good person or shop, that knows what they are doing & doesn't empty your pockets"...

I'm not sure that exists today... It's not cheap, you do really get what you pay for, in this case...

There is a difference between a body & paint shop {wham bam quick buck & mainly only insurance work} & a real restoration shop...

There are a ton of horror stories about people being duped/coned taken advantage of...
Buyer beware, do your due diligence/research, get references...

Location can, where the shop is located & will dictate pricing too, an expensive location in a larger more densely populated city/areas, can & usually will generally, dictate a "higher" hourly labor rate & costs associated with all forms of body & paint/restoration... the nature of the beast, cost of doing business & convenience...

IMHFO most reputable shops, that are actually worth their prices, won't do piece work, usually wont do a bit at a time, they will want to do the whole thing, or none...

I think it probably depends more on your budget, how good/bad of shape the cars actually in & what you think is a decent price, for a what your looking to do or a full body & paint job/restoration...

It can range from $40 per/hr low end {usually not a top quality job either} - $150 per/hr hi-end, plus up-to & could exceed 30k-50k+ in parts & labor easily, depending on condition & quality of the job & materials, for a full restoration of these expensive priced parts for these cars, after mark-up...

I'd find someone who's had a car done recently, in your specific area, ask them about their experiences, ask them about the ethics & price vs quality, if the shop could deliver on time, not put it on the back burner & milk it for ever...

If you do this, make absolutely sure you get a written contract & especially a performance clause, where they finish by a certain date, with-in your stated budget & their original bid or you can deduct $$$, for everyday they are late...
If they wont or aren't willing to do that, I'd highly suggest you keep looking, until you find a reputable shop that will...
Reputable Body/Restoration shops that perform will be willing to do such contracts...

Good luck with your search...
 
Great advice. The best situation for OP would be to try and do as much prep work as possible (remove glass, bumpers, etc) and bring it in ready to go. Also be honest with yourself and go over every inch of the car to find the hidden problem areas. That's where doing prep work at home helps you because you will find a lot (but not all) of the gremlins in this process, which will allow you to get a more accurate quote for time and labor.
 
This is the problem with providing advice without knowing what an owner's situation is. Pulling things like glass and bumpers is only needed if he's wanting a full blown restoration, but if all he's looking for is a nice driver then that time, effort, and expense it totally wasted. Worse, the removal of parts like that often results in damaging other parts during the process and eats up more time and money.

It's always better to find out what the situation is before you tell a guy how to deal with it. :)
 
First we need to you to answer these questions:

1. How old are you?
2. What kind of health are you in?
3. Do you have any knowledge or experience with body work?
4. Are you married?
5. What are your realistic plans for the car once it's done?
6. What is the maximum amount you realistically want to pay?
7. Do you want a single-stage or double-stage paint job?
8. What color do you want it to be?
9. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being the least and 10 being the most, how patient are you?

BTW, these are all serious questions.

Ok Bruzilla,

Im 30 years old

Because i'm 30 i'm bullet proof

I enjoy working on cars and have rebuilt a couple of corvettes and if you look up "440 ****" here on bbodys you will see the motor I have built for it (Bruzilla you commented on it). As far as body work I have not done much, this is why I would like someone who knows what they are doing. I am happy to do the tear down and pull apart etc.

Yes i'm married, (and she loves cars)

I have the car in my head all the details and things I want done, Im not a dreamer its not going to have the best of the best but it will be done right, I plan to keep the car

What it costs, I don't know, it will not be a 100 grand car but to do it my way it will be more than what you can buy a restored one for. Some of the things I am planing will be expensive, an example I plan on doing the seats the same as a Eurocopter EC130 that I used to fly, these seats in turn were copied out of a ferrari 250GTO (see pictures below)

I want the paint to turn heads but not to sit in a garage because I don't want it to get wet. I hate cars that don't get driven. The body MUST BE RIGHT

The color is to be gold (same as the gold corvette in the picture) which will be similar like it was factory with some matt black stripes on the hood

I am patient - 7 out of 10


DSCN2267.jpgDSCN2255.jpg299115913 copy.jpg
 
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I'm a novice. Why does needs a "roof skin scare me?
 
Thanks for the clarification. From the picture I thought maybe the paint was coming from the can shown and would be applied using the paint pan and a roller. I was going to advise not spending a whole lot on the body work. LOL

Good luck. My car has been in a paint/body shop for over a year, so what do I know? My top rust evolved into cutting the whole top off and replacing it with one from a rust free donor car. Car will have all rust removed when done, but there was plenty hiding under a still pretty nice ten year old paint job.

When I started talking to body shops, most regular body shops wanted nothing to do with an old car with rust issues. First restoration person quoted me 18K and 8 months for a show quality paint job. Second quoted me 12K plus cost of any body repair needed after stripped for a factory quality paint job and had a "for sale" sign in front of his house/shop. The third quoted me 9K plus the cost of any body work needed after stripped for a factory quality paint job and would not commit to any completion date. Place that has it now installed new full length quarter patch panels on both sides, trunk extensions and fabricated outer wheel houses. removed bondo over an inch thick from behind passenger door and pulled an unknown dent, cut off old roof and installed rust free donor roof and repaired sail panels, patched rust spots around taillight extensions both sides, patched rust spots in both doors, removed bondo and pulled unknown dent from right door sill, patched rust in edge of hood and trunk lids and replaced hinge pins in both doors and patched rust in bottom corners of both windshield and back glass. I am going to have about 9K to the paint/bodyshop by the time I get the car back with a nice driver quality paint, by no means show quality. I stripped the car completely for the shop and will be putting it back together when done. I paid for the quarter patch panels, trunk extensions, door hinge pins, the donor roof and shipping of the roof from Arkansas. This probably totalled another 1K or a little more.

Guy at the paint/body shop probably won't finish car for another six months (18 months total)
and I have had concerns about him dying before it gets done (quadruple bypass). He claims he will not be making a dime on this or the restoration of a 67 Chevelle he is just finishing up that he has already had for 18 months. He says he does restorations just for fill in and the love of saving old cars.

I have 14K in new/refurbished parts in the garage that go back on the car as soon as I get it back. The 10K in body work, paint and 14K in parts will be about what the car is worth when it is back together. That places the value of what I paid for the car and my time as zero.

I sure wish I would have bought a car someone else had nicely restored so I could be driving it right now. The avatar picture is the car as I bought it. Pretty nice looking driver with decent ten year old paint with just a few small bubbles under the paint on the right rear roof pillar. Who would have suspected what lurked below the surface.
 
Any 'Restoration' place that gives a Performance Clause is cutting their own throat, and, if you a customer expects one you're not fully engaged nor know what it takes to do this work, and the unforseen circumstances that arise. If you want a Performance clause, go to a Body Shop, they work on Performance Clauses all the time, it's called Insurance Company Jobs. I will never agree to a Time or Performance Clause ever in any contract I engage in with a customer. It's hard enough sometimes to weed out the Dreamers with no money from the Dreamers with money, binding myself to such a silly clause -- although appealing to the customer -- means certainly they'd look for reason's to NOT pay.
 
I'm a novice. Why does needs a "roof skin scare me?

If a car has roof rot, it generally means that the car also has...

quarter rot, wheelwell rot, rocker panel rot, door rot, floor rot, trunk rot, frame rot, cowl rot, fender rot, rear valance rot, hood rot, trunklid rot and dashboard rot.

Have I missed anything?
 
Donny, ive been told not to do buisness with rest shop that gives a flat price just by looking at the car to be restored. It always a problem. Most shops i looked at charged by the hour because of exactly what you said. When you do encounter prospective customers do you give them examples of what restoration might cost,not the bottom line price of course but a example of what they might spend to weed out the folks who just cant afford it?
 
If a car has roof rot, it generally means that the car also has...

quarter rot, wheelwell rot, rocker panel rot, door rot, floor rot, trunk rot, frame rot, cowl rot, fender rot, rear valance rot, hood rot, trunklid rot and dashboard rot.

Have I missed anything?
I think you forgot rot rot.....:toothy2:
 
The question should be:
1. Is your wife married?
2. What does she look like ?
 
Ok Bruzilla,

Im 30 years old

Because i'm 30 i'm bullet proof

I enjoy working on cars and have rebuilt a couple of corvettes and if you look up "440 ****" here on bbodys you will see the motor I have built for it (Bruzilla you commented on it). As far as body work I have not done much, this is why I would like someone who knows what they are doing. I am happy to do the tear down and pull apart etc.

Yes i'm married, (and she loves cars)

I have the car in my head all the details and things I want done, Im not a dreamer its not going to have the best of the best but it will be done right, I plan to keep the car

What it costs, I don't know, it will not be a 100 grand car but to do it my way it will be more than what you can buy a restored one for. Some of the things I am planing will be expensive, an example I plan on doing the seats the same as a Eurocopter EC130 that I used to fly, these seats in turn were copied out of a ferrari 250GTO (see pictures below)

I want the paint to turn heads but not to sit in a garage because I don't want it to get wet. I hate cars that don't get driven. The body MUST BE RIGHT

The color is to be gold (same as the gold corvette in the picture) which will be similar like it was factory with some matt black stripes on the hood

I am patient - 7 out of 10

Great answers. Now we've got something to work with. :)

You're 30, which is great because you're not a 18 year old dreamer, and you're not 55 or older or in bad health so you won't likely be one of those folks who has to sell off their uncompleted project due to health issues (one of the leading causes of project failure unfortunately).

You're married and your wife loves cars. Not as good as being single, but the next best thing. :)

You're not a money is no object guy, but you want the car to look nice. As for the seats, that would be a separate issue all together.

You want the paint to turn heads, so I'm guessing you're going to want a two-stage paint job vice a factory enamel job, which will double your costs.

You're wanting to do a color change, which means all the trim will have to be removed and reinstalled, door jambs, trunk, under the hood, etc., all painted, and that drives up the costs as well. On the plus side, the color is fairly light, and I've found that prices go up the darker the color due to increased amount of bodywork needed to make say a dark blue, purple, or black paint job look perfect.

Lastly, you're going to need to be patient because this project probably isn't going to be something that an in-and-out paint & body will be able to do, and you're going to be going to a resto shop, and I know guys who've had their cars in places like that for a year or more.

I'm thinking you're probably going to be looking at $4,000 to $7,000 for the paint (depending on what paint you end up selecting). As for the body work, Cranky hit the nail on the head. The only damage you're seeing now is what's visible above the paint. If you want the body to be perfect, the shop is going to strip away all that old paint and there's going to likely be a whole lot of warts that you didn't know were there underneath. Also, if you want sheet metal repair and not Bondo or fiberglass, that's going to get real expensive real fast and you could be $10,000-$20,000 in body work in no time.

Case in point. I bought a 73 Road Runner in 1985, and the body looked okay except for a horrid squash yellow/beige paint job. I was sanding down the paint to get it ready for a repaint, and there was a good sized chip on the fender that I wanted to smooth out. I started sanding and as the chip got bigger, the color changed from beige, to green, to blue, brown, to red. I started sanding more and discovered there were seven layers of paint on that car, and that was above the factory enamel and primer! And some previous owner had just painted right over the stripes as they were still on there buried under all the paint. Needless to say there was a whole lot of rust issues that were exposed once all the paint was off.

So my best guess would be, based on what you said you want, you're looking at $20,000 in P&B and that's very likely going to go up. Yes, you could save a few dollars by removing some parts yourself, but in the grand scheme of things that isn't going to make much of an impact. Doing things like pulling trim and sanding yourself are things that cut costs for lower-end paint jobs.
 
Great answers. Now we've got something to work with. :)

So my best guess would be, based on what you said you want, you're looking at $20,000 in P&B and that's very likely going to go up.

$20,000.00 is very very light. Add wheels, tires, front end rebuild, rechroming, buying missing parts, etc, etc. It just keeps adding up. As a reference, I spent 37 large on my hemi Charger restoration a year & a half ago & if you recall, the body was already painted & the interior was all original except; just the rugs and headliner needed to be replaced. Granted, a hemi is more costly to rebuild than a big block, but my rebuild really wasn't that bad.

On the other hand, if you go the restomod route, you'll have a hundred grand into it like nothing, just like this guy...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Charg...7e52eb1ac&item=171348767148&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

....and you'll be lucky to get 50 when you sell it.


The best bet is to always buy a done car. The hard part is finding the right car.
 
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