Borgeson for the Black Sabbath. (68 Charger)

[Kern Dog]

Great find, Jonas.
Sharing information on forums like this is a great thing. It helps others and spreads knowledge around.
I felt humbled when I got such good responses from FBBO members in my "Tremec 5 speed in a 70 Charger" thread. Many members chimed in to say how they appreciated the extensive details that were covered there. I often thought that I was being TOO meticulous and blabbing about stuff that most people didn't want to read. That may have been the case for some.
Cheers, sir!

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

A small sidetrack from the Borgeson:
Now when the steering box and pump is out, then it is a good time to install the Schumacher Torque Strap.

At walking speed or standing still and turning, my engine vibrates so that my headers hits the torsion bars and make this loud "GRGRGRGRGR" sound thats quite annoying. I hope that a torque strap could keep the engine a bit more still at those speeds.
(...I dont have a monster motor but it does have a lot of bottom torque...and I am still wondering if it was I that twisted a drive shaft?)

The Schumacher strap looked like the solution that I wanted with a type of sway bar bushing at the bottom bracket.
It does come with an angled bracket for RB blocks in a B-body.

Dry fitting and measuring I noticed that the strap fit like on the A-body illustration above without that extra bracket, especially if I could move the big lower bracket closer to the engine and closer towards the rear of the car.
So I decided to cut the bracket to not have to use that angular bracket.

The rod can now rest relaxed in the middle of the hole and have less angle than on the installation instruction pic.

So, fully installed on a RB block in a B-body:

...now lets move on with the steering stuff.

 

[Kern Dog]

That looks fancy. It won't work in a 70-72 B body or any E body with a front sway bar. Two things cannot occupy the same space!
I've used interlocking motor mounts that look stock. They fit and hold. No need for any external bracing or bracketry.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

That looks fancy. It won't work in a 70-72 B body or any E body with a front sway bar. Two things cannot occupy the same space!
I've used interlocking motor mounts that look stock. They fit and hold. No need for any external bracing or bracketry.

Ah, true, the sway bar goes through the middle of the K-member on later models.
I also changed to stock looking interlocking motor mounts (Dynatech) but it didnt help, lets see if the strap makes any difference.

 

[Kern Dog]

I also changed to stock looking interlocking motor mounts (Dynatech) but it didnt help, lets see if the strap makes any difference.

Well, heck, man....if those twisted axle splines are yours, I guess you're making a LOT more power than I am!

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

I'm using the schumacher torque strap with my 68 B body sway bar equipped car. Thanks for sharing your install mod.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I'm using the schumacher torque strap with my 68 B body sway bar equipped car. Thanks for sharing your install mod.

Yes, us 68s have the sway in front, you can see mine right below the oil filter.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Headers (Dougs) are torqued back in place. Theres lots of space now between the header tubes and the box, the box can be installed and removed without touching the headers. One win.

Test fitting the box, pump and hoses. Fits good with lots of space for the torque strap and ign wires.
Though the inlet for the cooler hits the pressure hose and I would also like to change the angle of the inlet to better meet the box outlet.

Lets take the cooler off and do some massaging again.

 

[Kern Dog]

That looks very clean. Nice work.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

That looks very clean. Nice work.

Thanks.
Tidy is nice but my main goal is Fun, lots of space to reach stuff and removal of dangerous things to get stuck in.
For example: electric fan with cover, steering pump pulley with no holes, battery moved to trunk, removed vacuum canister etc.
And that framerail next to the pump is a great place to put your foot when jumping up into the engine bay working on the carb.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Ok, some bending of tubes and we got a nice gap between cooler line and pressure hose. The rubber hose is also not rubbing against the pressure hose metal tubing.

Everything sits straight and relaxed before tightened.

I also added a bend to the return line from the box to meet the cooler better.
But kept the upward angle as to make a curve of the rubber hose so that it can move with the engine.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Pump, cooler and all lines installed.
Time to get under the car.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

I have made the nut for the sector support to a borgeson unit.
i think i have 2 or 3 left.

A forum like this can be a life saver.
Here comes Joske2 and ships a custom nut to me that has a metric thread to fit the Borgeson box and super exact size to fit straight into the sector support bearing.
Huge thanks Joske2.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

One step forward and two steps back.

The Borgeson box does not sit at the same location as the original box.
So now my sector support is off about 1cm.

Time for some coffee and think about what the solution will be. (I do not want to drill in my K-member again.)

Edit: Does anyone here that have installed a Borgeson thought about making centering-rings to the bolt holes?
The box can be moved around quite a lot before the bolts are tightened.
...this is also why Im keeping the sector support.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Headers, Torque strap, plugs/wires in place and the Borgeson box comes out easily from above anyway. That is Fun wrenching.

The bolt holes in the box are quite bigger than the bolts, so will see if I can make some centering rings to get the box to sit closer to where it should sit.

I also have something I want to do to the coupler...

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Update on the shoes.
There is some grading at the edges, so I tested to fit the shoes a bit further into the coupler.
The new shoes that I bought when putting in the FF box did still not fit.

...though my old originals did!
And they move smooth with no wiggle.

Another one of those "Always keep your old original parts"

All good.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

Centering rings made out of copper tubing.
When putting the box back the holes lined up perfectly with the centering rings and the box doesnt "hang" on the bolts anymore.
Torqueing down the bolts to 55 ft lbs went smoothly.

 

[Kern Dog]

What year model is the car? I thought it was a 68.
There was a point where the size of the tapped holes in the K member and the retaining bolts was increased, I think 1966?
Mopar Action magazine had an article on a Borgeson swap into an early 60s Plymouth that required the same fix that you did....thin sleeves to shrink up the space in the Borgeson mounting holes.

 

[Jonas Nordstrom]

What year model is the car?
There was a point where the size of the tapped holes in the K member and the retaining bolts was increased, I think 1966?
Mopar Action magazine had an article on a Borgeson swap into an early 60s PLymouth that required the same fix that you did....thin sleeves to shrink up the space in the Borgeson mounting holes.

-68.
Thanks, that would explain a lot.

 

[Kern Dog]

Is the K member correct for the year car? Is there a chance that you have an earlier K member in there? I thought that I read that The 1962-65 units fit but the motor mount brackets move the engine further forward on the earlier K members. Do you recall the thickness of the mounting bolts? 7/16" is what I recall was my size in the '70 Charger
This is strange. I've only read of the Borgeson bolt hole issue to exist is when installed in the earlier model cars.