California's "Clean Air Package" cars. Is your car one of them?

[RustyRatRod]

OK RustyRatRod...
"the cats outta the bag....!"
Hey:
PM me, tell me the details, I wont tell anyone..:angel11:

LOL

Just sayin.

 

[Grabinov911]

1970 Roadrunner RM21N0E - Los Angeles plant 383HP 4BBL

Ok gents. My car HAS the listed items: Charcoal canister, dual snorkel air cleaner, vacuum operated carb heat plates on/in the snorkel, vent pipes in the trunk to capture fuel tank vapors and route them into the intake, etc.

Did all the cars have this in 1970 or is this the CAP stuff only? My car was sold in Hemet, which is 100 miles east of Los Angeles and in 1970 (even today) was decidedly NOT a major metro area.

If a car were a CAP car, shouldn't there be SOMETHING on the VIN plate indicating this? I mean they indicated the type of rear view mirror!

 

[440roadrunner]

Did all the cars have this in 1970 or is this the CAP stuff only? My car was sold in Hemet, which is 100 miles east of Los Angeles and in 1970 (even today) was decidedly NOT a major metro area.

If a car were a CAP car, shouldn't there be SOMETHING on the VIN plate indicating this? I mean they indicated the type of rear view mirror!

No the VIN didnt' tell, other than assembly plant, but I don't think that "tells" as the assembly plant undoubtedly made non CAP cars for out of state

Fender tag/ build sheet, maybe

You HAVE a CAP car. Mine, when I owned it a year old was NOT a cap car and had NONE of the extra tanks/ tubing in the trunk. If you re--read my post, you'll see I argued with a cop over that in one of their famous roadside checks.

I don't think CA fiddled with rural versus city cars. I think if CA wanted "stuff" installed in CA, it was statewide. My recollection, at least.

I'll never go back, ever. For any reason. Oregon is close on the list.

 

[super-bee_ski]

1970 Roadrunner RM21N0E - Los Angeles plant 383HP 4BBL

Ok gents. My car HAS the listed items: Charcoal canister, dual snorkel air cleaner, vacuum operated carb heat plates on/in the snorkel, vent pipes in the trunk to capture fuel tank vapors and route them into the intake, etc.

Did all the cars have this in 1970 or is this the CAP stuff only? My car was sold in Hemet, which is 100 miles east of Los Angeles and in 1970 (even today) was decidedly NOT a major metro area.

If a car were a CAP car, shouldn't there be SOMETHING on the VIN plate indicating this? I mean they indicated the type of rear view mirror!

That IS what my 70 Bee has.
As my first post states, these were the first CARB/CAP cars. They were de-tuned. A simmilar Roadrunner or ?? from another County in California did not have the CAP equipment. The "E" in the VIN has some hint of it possibly being a CAP car.
Example:
1. Car with "E" in Vin: Could be a CAP car
2. Car with no "E" in Vin: NOT A CAP CAR. (Can NOT be because in 1970 only a car w/ "E" in VIN could be but might not be, that is why a Hemi car from that plant did not have the de-tune and CAP equip)
So, it HAD to be a "E" code in the Vin BUT not all had it. The 383 and 440s did get it but I think the 440-six packs (6-BBLs) and the Hemis were exempt.
Hmmm, gets one thinking "what if" someone bought a new 383 Roadrunner and got beat-up by a 325HP 396 chevelle ...

:angryfire::angryfire:

 

[super-bee_ski]

No the VIN didnt' tell, other than assembly plant, but I don't think that "tells" as the assembly plant undoubtedly made non CAP cars for out of state

Fender tag/ build sheet, maybe

You HAVE a CAP car. Mine, when I owned it a year old was NOT a cap car and had NONE of the extra tanks/ tubing in the trunk. If you re--read my post, you'll see I argued with a cop over that in one of their famous roadside checks.

I don't think CA fiddled with rural versus city cars. I think if CA wanted "stuff" installed in CA, it was statewide. My recollection, at least.

I'll never go back, ever. For any reason. Oregon is close on the list.

It was not "State wide" initially in 1970.
That is why I started this thread. It was Los Angeles county that first initiated this and Chrysler "folded" and produced the first CAP car for the Los Angeles area.

 

[super-bee_ski]

My "Buds" 70 Roadrunner was from San Bernardino / Riverside. His 70 Roadrunner was NOT a CAP car. He bought it new.
BTW: You all know "My Bud"....He is very very reliable and is a MOPAR enthusiast/expert. No names but you know HIS car...
Gone in 60 seconds...The 1971 RED Hemi Cuda Nick Cage and Angelina Jolie rode around in

OR,
The Superbird in Joe Dirt...he helped make that car.

 

[Grabinov911]

OK. Help me out with the next step here.

Perfectly willing to accept that I have a CAP car - built in Los Angeles with an October 1969 date coded engine and delivered to Plymouth of Hemet in San Bernardino County, and with the hoses and tubes and canister.

But my car now has a Holley carb, the vacuum hoses for all that stuff have long since rotted away and I don't think the vents in the tank hurt anything. So the effect of those items on the performance of the engine, to the extent that they really harmed performance anyway, is none.

AND THE CAR IS STILL SLOW - I mean I don't think it makes anything like 335hp. It has 50,00 original miles, and I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what would have happened to the engine in that time (before I got it), so it may be damaged, but runs perfectly. What I do know is that it shows about 120psi max compression in each of the cylinders. Divide by 14.7 and you get 8.2 to 1 compression Now that's LOW!

Did the CAP cars have lower compression, milder cam, other really sinister mods that ACTUALLY affect horsepower?

 

[440roadrunner]

It was not "State wide" initially in 1970.
That is why I started this thread. It was Los Angeles county that first initiated this and Chrysler "folded" and produced the first CAP car for the Los Angeles area.

According to the 70 shop manuals it was statewide, IE Chapter 9A Now of course I didn't go around checking cars in southern CA, but it's reasonable to assume that SOME cars meant for out of state either got sold or transferred into CA, just like mine. (The original owner, also in the Navy, ordered it in Oregon specifically to get away from CA, and had Oregon plates on it. Unfortunately, I had financed it through the NAS Miramar credit union, and they required "in state" plates.)

 

[440roadrunner]

last photo

 

[Grabinov911]

Aha! Way to go 440Runner. Nice work.

"Lower compression ratios by 0.5". Now THAT will have an effect on performance.

So what is the factory compression ratio for a standard (not CAP) 1970 "N" engine (383HP 4BBL)? I'm guessing it's around 9 to 1. From that I assume that mine was 8.5 to one from the factory, and it's 8.2 to 1 today due to wear and time (rings and valves)...

Does that make sense?

 

[super-bee_ski]

Well:
440roadrunner, Thanks for that highly detailed and informative article. I hope this clears up any issues and or answers anyone may have.
The CAP cars were "handicapped" (not politically correct, my apologies) or more appropiately, "restricted" when it came to performance.
Furthermore, it seems ONLY Los Angeles cars received this special CAP (package)
Dont forget the ignition timing and the solenoid! Critical factors ensuring sluggish performance.
My 1970 383 Superbee being one of them

 

[Meep-Meep]

OK. Help me out with the next step here.

Perfectly willing to accept that I have a CAP car - built in Los Angeles with an October 1969 date coded engine and delivered to Plymouth of Hemet in San Bernardino County, and with the hoses and tubes and canister.

But my car now has a Holley carb, the vacuum hoses for all that stuff have long since rotted away and I don't think the vents in the tank hurt anything. So the effect of those items on the performance of the engine, to the extent that they really harmed performance anyway, is none.

AND THE CAR IS STILL SLOW - I mean I don't think it makes anything like 335hp. It has 50,00 original miles, and I'll be the first to admit that I have no idea what would have happened to the engine in that time (before I got it), so it may be damaged, but runs perfectly. What I do know is that it shows about 120psi max compression in each of the cylinders. Divide by 14.7 and you get 8.2 to 1 compression Now that's LOW!

Did the CAP cars have lower compression, milder cam, other really sinister mods that ACTUALLY affect horsepower?

120 PSI sounds like it's worn but I don't think you can even remotely close calculate compression ratio using cylinder pressure. Reason is the intake valve closing point can vary and throw the number off significantly.