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Chassis dyno or engine dyno??

Dynos are just additional tools to aid in building these cars. I really like using both. The engine dyno is great for a baseline tune, addressing and issues before it goes in the car and using the data for picking converter and gear. I've seen it countless times where it gets put in the car, runs like crap and fingers get pointed to the builder. The engine dyno eliminates that scenario. Then they can start looking at the car to see if it's related to the car's fuel/ignition or other systems. If they also put it on the chassis dyno, they can see how much power they killed by adding the exhaust, trans and drivetrain to the equation. They can also really dial in the tune since the engine is in the car and complete.
 
anybody ever notice how folks get their big cute engine dyno numbers and then go to the track and have disappointing times. where the rubber meets the road is the real power. transmissions, converters, driveshafts, rear axles, etc. soak up power.

I think HP numbers are just that, numbers. Until a car is put on the track & the engine/chassis tuned for the conditions, you really can't tell whether you've made any gains. I've use several HP calculators to estimate how much HP my car makes & never got the same result. I wonder how close any two dynos are. my .02
 
I have always built engines around the body weight, differential gearing, torque converter stall if auto transed and the output I thought I needed. The idea of building an engine, dino tuning and then trying to match what to put it in just seems backwards.
 
Chassis Dyno,
real world #'s thru all the pieces & parts, to the tires, with parasitic drag/loss etc.

nothing wrong with engine dynos #'s either

But the track is my dyno usually, that's real world...
 
A few hours on the dyno can help you dial in a combo that might take multiple trip to the track.
 
A few hours on the dyno can help you dial in a combo that might take multiple trip to the track.

And that's a bad thing, why? Part of the enjoyment of racing is making a pass, tweaking an adjustment, and seeing if you made an improvement. Not only is it fun, but you learn a lot about what works for your combination. Timing adjustments, jetting, tire pressure, RPM when you drop the hammer, etc. all make you a better mechanic, tuner and racer. If you want a dialed in combination, just go buy a Hellcat and get it over with.
If I was a professional racer, whose income depended on winning races, none of this applies. But, as an amateur, I like the process. Consequently, none of my motors or race cars have ever been on a dyno. Just another opinion...
 
Well it's costly and time consuming to go to the track too. I respect the do it yourself guys. I just also believe in seeking professional help for tuning. After owning a tuning shop for 7 years, I would say everyone should put 300-500 aside to dyno tune their car on a chassis dyno. It's money well spent to protect the biggest part of your investment
 
Well it's costly and time consuming to go to the track too. I respect the do it yourself guys. I just also believe in seeking professional help for tuning. After owning a tuning shop for 7 years, I would say everyone should put 300-500 aside to dyno tune their car on a chassis dyno. It's money well spent to protect the biggest part of your investment

My paint and body work?:penguins paint pixi:
 
My 440 was engined dynoed at 550 hp. I know there is a huge loss between that and real world power at the track. The best way to tune is start with the carb and then the timing. I may be able to pull more out of the motor but, as a bracket car I don't need more power I just need to run the same times every time thats what wins. When I first got this car it was an 11 second car and could do no better. After adjusting the Air fuel mix with jets and removed power valves it improved to 10.75 the jets in the 1050 started out with .99 jets went all the way down run after run to 89 where it was falling off. W#ent back to 90 jets 4 square and power was back to its peak. Excelerated all the down the track. Before with the 99 jets I felt it was over before it was over and I was correct. Making the adjustments in small increiments and then run it twice and analyze the tickets with the other weather data wind, etc. will get you to where you want to go. I love to tinker with this car and am now to concerned if I go backworks in doing so. As long as you record what you do you can alway adjust your mistakes or your improvements. I am going to look into the timing after this season is over but, not till then only 4 races left in this season. I am going to hang with what it is right now. Just want to add to this long post a thanks to all of you guys for advice and your real time results that you have posted here trying to find that sweet spot. Your cars are very cool and drag racing Mopars dosen't get any better.
 
I think it's more about money than anything, for most. It's tough to know what your car is really capable of in ideal conditions, if ya don't know what kinda HP and torque it makes, and where. How do you pick driveline parts? Seems like once ya have those engine numbers and a weight....you have a baseline.
 
Chrondek Timers “Christmas Tree” is the tru way to see the real deal. It doesn't lie.
 
Chrondek Timers “Christmas Tree” is the tru way to see the real deal. It doesn't lie.

I hear that said all the time. Unfortunately, it won't help you figure out what's wrong with a combo.
 
If you get the engine right on the chassis dyno then you dial in the suspension on the track
 
That is the question that really is the question.

Engine dyno over sixty miles away. Chassis dyno about 5 miles down the road. Which would you choice and why?
The only real dyno IS the drag strip as quoted earlier. Either dyno is only a guess as to what is going to happen. The chassis dyno is much easier to fool with bogus numbers while the engine dyno ( what is called an eddy current R&D engine dyno) is as close to what the truth really is. In my NASCAR days, the biggest numbers were not the fastest engines we used on the track. A chassis dyno is good for looking to free up power in the drive line and looking at engine acceleration rates. This is something very few people look at. Also, look at the cars (complete engine and drive line) deceleration rates. This is all due to friction robbing places and parts.
For tuning, the chassis dyno is a very good tool for the time frame your running, but a good data recording system on board will do the very same thing, only all the time and any time you want to. It really is an on-board dyno. Plus, if instrumented on and for other cars, can be switched between all cars. You would be surprised how out of tune even new cars will get when big weather changes come along. Nothing bad or much, but more than enough for max power. Plus with on board data acquisition, trying new parts and components will show a plus or minus right away. Like did that carbon drive shaft really do anything? (Yes it did, more than we thought it would)
So, to answer this question. The answer is neither and both. I like to start off with a engine dyno then switch to data acquisition on board. Data acquisition is a pricey part to start with, but once installed, paid for it'll last almost forever. Well, that is until you figure out what's happening and decide MORE DATA!!! With todays racing even Saturday night local stuff to get that extra little bit of performance out of that Mopar I have to say with a heavy heart, ya just gotta have that data!
I have been working with a local guy here in Phoenix for several years on a 1965 Dodge REAL door slammer. 492 wedge engine, single 4 Holly Dominator 3850 pounds (original A/M radio worked real good until real bad tire shake) with NO power adders, low 9s @ 148 and plus MPH. Averages 1.3 60 foot times, good days 1.2s! When asked how did you hide the NOS, I simply say in a very snarky voice, all motor because that's for Chevys! The real trick is getting everything to work well together and NOT doing what everyone says works because everyone says. Number one trick, get it to breath well AND big numbers again isn't the trick. There is such a thing as volatility. Number 2 trick, almost everyone over cams or picks a cam company that is really a GM cam grinder. I personally like Crane. Third trick, pay alot of attention to the intake manifold (innards) and the exhaust headers. Size does really matter here more than most think. And, it's a big block, not a very high winding small block, OK. Look hard at torque (first) and HP then decide on RPM limit. Sometimes short shifting you can go faster. Try it. Another thing I just remembered, fuel pressure AND flow! We have 38psi to the regulator then 6.5psi to the -10 lines (2) that go to the carb. Think about this and tell me why?
Heads used, Mopar Stage 6 ported by Dick Landy years ago. Intake manifold, Mopar M1 that I took almost 2 garbage cans of aluminum chips out with my mill. Looks like a stock M1, but inside it's real different and flows perfectly FOR THAT engine. Cam is a custom roller by Crane, Chase Knight designed. He's probably forgotten more about Mopar cam profiles than most have ever learned. And really small compared to most other cam grinders designs.
Jeff (really old guys)
 
I just posted about the difference between the dynos. In my reply I stated times with our 65 Dodge wedge engined drag car that I just realized I didn't state that we drag race in the 1/4 mile drag strip for times.

Jeff
 
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