Clutch pedal sticking to the floor

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

Here is the down and dirty:
Shifted the car from 3rd to 4th, loud bang, clutch pedal stays on the floor.

Towed the car home, found the throw out bearing had exploded.

Pull the car apart, found quite a bit of damage- worn out clutch, front bearing seal retainer was broken completely around the input shaft, bellhousing was cracked in multiple places.

Got new bellhousing from Brewer's, had driveshaft balanced- shop found a groove in the yoke and told me the output bearing in the trans was wearing out. I was planning on living with it as I wanted to put the Passion 5 speed in it. When installing new front bearing retainer, I learned an important lesson about replacing used bolts- snapped one off in the case when doing the final torqueing. It broke off too close to the case for me to get the bolt extractor on, so I bit the bullet and had the trans rebuilt.

New stock style B&B clutch and pressure plate and pilot bushing, flywheel was resurfaced, used new ARP flywheel bolts, ARP Pressure plate bolts, ARP lubricant and torqued to spec.
Replaced both ball studs, bushings, seals, zerk fitting, had to weld on new pins for the linkage on the Z Bar- some previous worker drilled them out and used a nut and bolt to connect the linkage to it. I do see why that was done, there is a 1/4" of movement from the clutch rods before the Z Bar actually gets moved, of course this was noticed as I was bench testing the fitment. I image that once it was installed and adjusted, that movement would stop.

So now that everything is assembled, I attempted to set the free play in the clutch pedal....wife pushed down on the clutch and the pedal goes to the floor and stays there. I can pull it up by hand, don't feel any binding- I know that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Got underneath the dash, I don't see anything obviously broken. Over center spring seems to be intact.

Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[Daves69]

Did you set the plate departure?

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

No I didn't, as there is no mention of checking it in the FSM. How would you measure this with everything in place? Is it easy to do? Then the next obvious question, how do you set this distance if it is wrong? Do you shim it or is there an adjustment that could be made to the pressure plate springs?
I image that this is an issue because of poor quality control at the manufacturer, but I am still a little shocked that you have to do this with stock style parts! That depth should be set at the time of manufacture based on the pressure plate torque values from the FSM, no? Thanks for your help!

 

[440roadrunner]

Well this is puzzling, but.......


I don't see what was posted, "plate departure" having anything to do with sticking down. In fact I've never seen a way to MAKE a BB pp stick to the floor

When you say you can "pull it up" does it forcefully pop back up? A BB has considerable spring pressure, and should be difficult to press down.

I would try "getting under there" and having the good wife work the linkage and see what moves.

One thing that happens occasionally is that some of the linkage on the Z bar breaks, or loosens, the pivot on the frame or I've had the Z bar tube crack and when you press the pedal, it just sort of twists.

 

[Daves69]

First make sure you didn't drop the fork off the release bearing spring clips.
Make sure your fork is seated correctly on the pivot fulcrum.
With the above looking good push the fork rearward so the release bearing is on the plate fingers.
With the pedal up, adjust the clutch rod adjust nut to firm up the linkage taking out almost all of the free play.
Attach the spring that pulls the fork forward and keeps the linkage from rattling.
You should now be able to depress the clutch pedal without it slamming to the floor.
Continue to adjust the nut as necessary for plate departure.
When you can slide .060" between the disc and flywheel at full pedal travel you should be good. This is a starting point.
As far as the pedal free play you want the pedal to return to the up stop on it's own.
When the pedal is up you want the release bearing off the fingers, not riding on them all the time.

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

No the clutch pedal not difficult at all to press down, nor is it difficult to pull it back up. No real tension on it at all. Everything looks ok with the Z bar, any sort of pressure on the clutch pedal and the Z bar moves accordingly. The linkage all appears to move smoothly as one would expect. I'm starting to think that maybe it is as simple as a worn out overcenter spring. Maybe the pin that hold one end of the overcenter spring is bent or broken? How would the overcenter spring stay in place?

 

[Daves69]

.................. In fact I've never seen a way to MAKE a BB pp stick to the floor.......................

He has to have a linkage issue as I see it. He needs a starting point. And yeah, if your not set right the pedal can go to the floor.

The over center spring works in both directions 2012.

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

Thank you! I will let you know after I get this done how it worked out..

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

So here is an update, clutch fork felt ok, moved like it should so I took off the little spring that keeps the fork from rattling and pushed the fork against the diaphragm as per instructions and ran the nut up to take up the slack. Tried the pedal and the same nonsense of it staying on the floor continued. So back to square one, pulled the boot off, dropped the inspection cover and found a mess. One of the clips holding the throw out bearing to the fork was mangled, twisted completely out of shape. Was a good time had by all in removing said clip. In comparison to the clips on the old throw out bearing, they looked really thin. I'm kind of annoyed that I didn't pick up on that during assembly. I'm going to try S&K speed by me to see if they have them in stock but I'm not holding my breath. Otherwise I will just get them from Brewer's and I'll have to wait for them. I did get the car running tonight though so that makes me happy.

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

Well all's well that ends well I guess.. New clips came from Brewer's on Saturday. I replaced both clips and got everything back together and I am happy to report that the issue was resolved. Everything appears to be in working order again. Thanks again for the helpful advice!

 

[Daves69]

Well all's well that ends well I guess.. New clips came from Brewer's on Saturday. I replaced both clips and got everything back together and I am happy to report that the issue was resolved. Everything appears to be in working order again. Thanks again for the helpful advice!

Good to hear!

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

Unfortunately I was a bit too premature in calling it fixed. While the pedal is not sticking to the floor completely, it is not returning to its neutral position. My new question is, do the ends of the overcenter spring pivot at both attachment pins? When I actuate the pedal I see the spring end closest to the firewall pivot on that pin but on the side closest to the dashboard, the spring is bending. that action is what seems to be stopping the pedal from returning to neutral position. any thoughts?

 

[Matrix2]

Maybe you should talk to Brewers. I am under the impression that when you use a B&B type clutch, you don't need the over center spring, so it can be removed. You probably need to add a return spring for the clutch pedal.

 

[5.7 hemi]

You remove the over center spring when using a diaphragm style clutch.

 

[Daves69]

Has the spring been removed and replaced?
Can you post a picture of your over center spring?
Maybe someone can post a picture of the correct orientation of the spring.

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

I ordered a new oc spring and a new pin. Apparently the pins do wear out, develop flat spots etc. whereby the oc spring doesn't rotate like it should and you get an issue like I am having. The previous owner obviously didn't want to fix it correctly so they got the spring out of that flat spot so it would work, covered everything with white lube and prayed that they would sell it before it got stuck again and/or the clutch failed. The only other thing that could potentially make this suck more is if the mounting point for the pin on the clutch pedal is damaged. I'm really hoping that I don't find that problem but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I've never had a car resist coming back together like this one. I know that's silly but it sure feels like it. I would love it if someone did post a good picture of their overcenter spring for reference!! Thanks again for the input!

 

[Dennis H]

I got lost a long time ago. The fork broke on mine one day. Done. Down. Tow. Hope it was replaced along with other components. Like rear main seals, you need a good wrench with Mopar experience. Along with valve guide seals, you need skills of a surgeon for some of these jobs.

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

Dennis- it really isn't that complicated at all, your confusion is probably a reflection of my poor communication skills! In my case, taking the car to a mechanic defeats the purpose. Working on these cars is like most people's military experience- it gets better the further away from it you get.

 

[biomedtechguy]

"Was a good time had by all in removing said clip". Lmao!

 

[2012ChargerBlacktop]

Will someone please verify that I am not seeing things.. the above picture is from the FSM. It shows the orientation of the OC spring as the long end being attached to the clutch pedal and the short end attached to the pin closest to the firewall. On my car that orientation is reversed. A friend of mine sent me a picture of his OC spring in his Cuda and is oriented the same way that it is in my car. Is the Cuda different from Road Runner? Does it make a difference?? Thoughts? Thanks!