Correct installation of green axle bearings.

[Cranky]

I've bought a set of Yukon axles from Quick Performance, they send the lugs, bearings and retainers uninstalled with their standard replacement sets. I called to make sure I was getting everything right, and asked about the design improvements to the Green bearings. Was told pretty much what you here are saying, the retainer and O-ring secure the bearing housing sufficiently, but also was told the outer diameter of the housing is slightly undersize on purpose. With production tolerances of the 8 3/4's day, the bearing race in axle tube ends is rarely precisely aligned and the early RP-400 bearing design could get bound up and destroy itself. The MO-400 design solved that problem.

Dr. Diff's tech section spells this out as well:
Why Green Bearings? - Quality Body Shop Drivetrain (doctordiff.com)

I haven't installed my new axles yet, bought them as a preventative step as the laps build on my Belvedere at the strip.

The sloppy production tolerances didn't apply to just the 8 3/4. The 3rd member was good and so was the engines and transmissions but the body of the car was terrible! Equal side to side? Nope. Was the width the same on like models? Nope? And the list goes on but they were good enough lol.

 

[DereII]

Production automobiles, until you start leaning on them I suspect a lot of small errors just carry on through the years. It's a great time with more companies paying them some attention that GM products enjoyed for so long.

 

[Cranky]

Production automobiles, until you start leaning on them I suspect a lot of small errors just carry on through the years. It's a great time with more companies paying them some attention that GM products enjoyed for so long.

What did GM products enjoy for so long? Are you talking about soft cast iron in their small block's castings or just fact that they have always enjoyed wiped out cams well before the oils lost the ZDDP additives.....just to name a couple of items. Another right off the top of my head were rear drums that usually needed a puller or plenty of heat from a torch to 'coax' them off with the results usually ruining them. Mopar transmissions were better too both manual and automatics. Or did you mean the that GM enjoyed the attention the aftermarket gave them for so long? GM still gets that before the others do....

 

[RJRENTON]

There ya go Bob, quoting me saying never to say something won’t fail and then go on to say that the bearing seal will fail and wash out the sealed for life grease. So which is it?

Gee, you don’t think diff lube has ever got through a Timken, ruined the brakes? Seriously, the guy is using Green Bearings, quit trying to tell him or anyone else looking at this that Timken’s are the best way to go! You still running bias-ply tires? These cars came from the factory with them, so why run a radial? I could go on, but I won’t ruin this thread anymore, so to the OP, I apologize. If ya want to hear from me or have questions, just send me a pm.

Sure, axle lube has penetrated the inboard seal. I guess it's difficult to determine what will occur first....sort of like the chicken and egg theory..... but its also hard to believe that the external snap ring can withstand all the axial movement of the axle is subject to, sandwiched between the retainer plate and the housing. The external O-ring on the bearing prevents axle lubricant from migrating around the race and getting into the brake mechanism, but not thru the bearing assembly, built in seal not withstanding. I have ordered one MO400 bearing assembly to compare it to the Timken Tapered assembly to satisfy my own curiosity.
BOB RENTON

 

[DereII]

Aftermarket support, that's what I meant by companies paying attention like they have to GM. It's always been cheaper to build GM V8s for the economy of scale, as a friend of mine jokes you used to stop in at 7-11 for a Slurpee and small block Chevy camshaft. He's a Ford guy and of course suffers from some of the same cost injustices that we do.

I won't complain when Mopar racers set up with a Ford 9", if they're not cheaper than an 8 3/4" then at least they have a huge amount of aftermarket support and you can get complete pigs in a variety of ratios from other racers easier than with our Mopar stuff. I stick with as much factory design as I can, even run a Thermoquad atop my Dere's 440:

Latest Updates From Onawa Dragway | Facebook

 

[Cranky]

Aftermarket support, that's what I meant by companies paying attention like they have to GM. It's always been cheaper to build GM V8s for the economy of scale, as a friend of mine jokes you used to stop in at 7-11 for a Slurpee and small block Chevy camshaft. He's a Ford guy and of course suffers from some of the same cost injustices that we do.

I won't complain when Mopar racers set up with a Ford 9", if they're not cheaper than an 8 3/4" then at least they have a huge amount of aftermarket support and you can get complete pigs in a variety of ratios from other racers easier than with our Mopar stuff. I stick with as much factory design as I can, even run a Thermoquad atop my Dere's 440:

Latest Updates From Onawa Dragway | Facebook

Btw, welcome to the site....!

 

[Cartel]

I reiterate my point regarding the AXIAL (cornering) load capabilities of the Green style bearing. It looks like the only way to get any engineering information on the Green bearing's type or manufacturer's part number (all bearings have a manufacturers part number somewhere on the assembly) is to buy one and do my own checking. There are many factors that determine the suitability of a particular type (single row ball, both Conrad type and maximum type, double row ball, duplex angular contact, straight roller, spherical roller, and tapered roller designs and the bearing's internal clearances, eg. Class 2, Class 3, etc.). These factors include: position, temperature, RPM, axial load and radial load capabilities, sealed or shielded or both, method of installation, any preloaded conditions, etc.
Does one type of bearing satisfy all conditions: NO. The application must be based many conditions including cost, L-10 life expectancy, safety, availablity, ease of installation etc.
I'll do my own due diligence with regard to retro fit parts for my applications rather than some other person's opinion, especially the "my buddy" rule or other unsubstantiated information. Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON

se8704s is the bearing part number

 

[RJRENTON]

se8704s is the bearing part number

View attachment 1466512

THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION.....BUT....I COULDN'T GET A CROSS REFERENCE ON THE NTN SOFTWARE TO CROSS IT OVER......I'LL KEEP LOOKING....
BOB RENTON

 

[Cartel]

THANK YOU FOR THE INFORMATION.....BUT....I COULDN'T GET A CROSS REFERENCE ON THE NTN SOFTWARE TO CROSS IT OVER......I'LL KEEP LOOKING....
BOB RENTON

thanks. I am putting the mo400 style in my 66. It'd be nice to know some info. Strange stocks that part but calls it "ford small"

Part Number: A1023A
Sealed Ball Bearing
– 2.834″ OD x 1.562″ ID
– Outer seal & o-ring eliminates inner axle seal
– Includes locking collar

Axle Bearing With Locking Collar - Each For Small Ford 2.835" ID Housing End Fits Axles With 1.5635" Bearing Area - Strange Engineering

Axle Bearing With Locking Collar - Each For Small Ford 2.835" ID Housing End Fits Axles With 1.5635" Bearing Area - Strange Engineering

www.strangeengineering.net

the timkn style list the size:
Width (IN)1.01
Outer Diameter (IN)2.875
Inner Diameter (IN)1.5625

maybe that number is the seal itself?

 

[RJRENTON]

thanks. I am putting the mo400 style in my 66. It'd be nice to know some info. Strange stocks that part but calls it "ford small"

Part Number: A1023A
Sealed Ball Bearing
– 2.834″ OD x 1.562″ ID
– Outer seal & o-ring eliminates inner axle seal
– Includes locking collar

http://[URL][URL][URL]https://www.s...th-locking-collar-ford-2-835-small-ford.html/

[/URL][/URL][/URL]

the timkn style list the size:
Width (IN)1.01
Outer Diameter (IN)2.875
Inner Diameter (IN)1.5625

maybe that number is the seal itself?

THANK YOU FOR HELP AND INFORMATION. My purpose of the exercise is to see the maximum RADIAL and AXIAL load carrying capacity at a rated rpm and temp compared to the Timken bearing assembly as origionality installed under identical conditions, to either prove or disprove the application. There is sbout a 50% faction that believes in their use.....Im one of 50% faction that does not. I cannot seem to get any accurate ENGINEERING information from Dr Diff on how this bearing was selected....so I decided to look for my self. True, ball bearings have both axial and radial load capacity but how much compared to a true tapered roller bearing operating under the same conditions. The small external snap ring on the Green bearing does not appear to be very substantial but without additional information about the bearing assembly, it's difficult to say.....thanks again for the info......
BOB RENTON

 

[5.7 hemi]

The snap is there so the plate has something to go against. The Timken bearings used in the factory set up were used due to the housings not being perfectly straight from end to end. You can get away with some “out of straightness” with a tapered bearing. Just remember, the Ford 9 inch used in everything nowadays uses a roller bearing on the axles.

 

[khryslerkid]

Just remember, the Ford 9 inch used in everything nowadays uses a roller bearing on the axles.

...and Dodge 1500 Ram and 2nd generation Dakotas with 9.25 rears. GM is probably using them also.

 

[RJRENTON]

...and Dodge 1500 Ram and 2nd generation Dakotas with 9.25 rears. GM is probably using them also.

Roller bearings have no axial load capability...how is this load controlled? Great for radial load. What's the number of the bearing? "Probably using them" is like being a little pregnant.....they are or not being used...specifics would be nice .... for future reference.....just my opinion of course...
BOB RENTON

 

[68-500]

I don’t follow the mechanics or logic of having to do green bearings for disk brakes. It seems to me that both disk snd drum have 1 job thats stopping the car neither one locate the axle in any form that im aware of. Please enlighten me.

Bob, he's doing a rear disk brake conversion. You have to use the Green bearing.

The Green bearing got a bad rap years ago when a bad batch was on the market. That's been corrected and there hasn't been any complaints since. All of the new cars are useing sealed roller bearings and they are even on front wheel drive cars. Imagine all of the pressure they go through on the turning wheels and the weight of a engine and trans sitting on them.

JMO

 

[khryslerkid]

Roller bearings have no axial load capability...how is this load controlled? Great for radial load. What's the number of the bearing? "Probably using them" is like being a little pregnant.....they are or not being used...specifics would be nice .... for future reference.....just my opinion of course...
BOB RENTON

We've covered this before Professor Bob...

Post in thread 'Green axle bearings' Green axle bearings

 

[khryslerkid]

I don’t follow the mechanics or logic of having to do green bearings for disk brakes. It seems to me that both disk snd drum have 1 job thats stopping the car neither one locate the axle in any form that im aware of. Please enlighten me.

Some have used the factory taypered roller for rear disk. All the rear disk conversions that I've seen recommend the Green bearings. Maybe not as much lateral movement when the caliper is applied?

Early front disk setups used taypered rollers in the front hubs. Modern vehicles with front wheel drive use roller bearings on the front with disk brakes. Maybe it doesn't matter that much.

 

[Cartel]

I put the green bearing in and have had no problems at all. I will probably put barely 500 miles on it a year so I hope I'm good

 

[gkent]

The rocking of rail cars would wear the balls and race out.

So if you got a car that wasn't shipped by rail you were good for life!!

Hmmm, sounds like a load of bullshit to me !!

 

[Rebelrouser]

I am doing a rear disc brake conversion on my 70 Charger. I bought the Right Stuff rear disc brake kit. I also ordered the green bearings to replace the factory tapered roller bearings . I noticed that the green bearings come with a spacer,and I am assuming that the spacer goes on the axle first, then the retaining plate,then the bearing with the snap ring towards the hub of the axle. Am I assuming correctly? I am going to take the axles to have the green bearings pressed on,and I want to install them correctly the first time! The axle is a Dana 60. Thanks Pete,

The collar is to lock the bearing on the axle. Old time mechanics call it a wedding ring. My main advice is that you install the ring correctly, it must be heated, before pushing it on against the bearing. If you don't heat it, it may distort and not hold the bearing in place properly. The ring is a onetime use device, if you press it off it is junk do not try and reuse it.

 

[mopar 3 B]

So if you got a car that wasn't shipped by rail you were good for life!!

Hmmm, sounds like a load of bullshit to me !!

Believe what you want. I got my info from a reliable source. So load of bullshit you say.