Cranks but won’t start

[Tony Wessels]

i have a 1964 Dodge 440. It currently has a 383 in it and it’s been converted to an electronic ignition. It was running fine and the next day it wouldn’t start. The engine cranks great but it won’t start. I replaced the ignition control module as that is usually the first thing that goes bad. Didn’t work. I then replaced the cap and rotor. No change. I then replaced the coil. No change. I had the battery tested and it’s fine. I’ve even tried pouring a little gas into the carb but nothing. I’m about at my whit’s end and would appreciate some help.

One thing that seems a bit odd, after having engaged the starter with the key and turning the key back to the left to remove the key from the ignition it almost seems like the engine, briefly, wants to fire. It doesn’t do this all the time.

Thanks,
Tony

 

[dryheat]

You have 2 wires from your ignition switch ... one for the start and one for the run. Sounds like the run wire is not supplying power. I would start there.

 

[Don Frelier]

Sounds like a bad ignition switch.

 

[Sixpactogo]

I suspect you have a bad Ballast resistor or a bad plate coil in the distributor. I would start with the ballast resistor first since you said it fires when you let off of the starter to the run position.

 

[91r/t]

Sounds like a bad ignition switch.

To further what Don said......Take your ignition switch and find the start and run terminals on the back. Take a volt meter and make sure there is 12V at the start when cranking and run when on but not cranking. If not, then look at your switch and if so, then trace it out to the ballast resistor and ignition box and see where you lose power.

 

[91r/t]

I suspect you have a bad Ballast resistor or a bad plate coil in the distributor. I would start with the ballast resistor first since you said it fires when you let off of the starter to the run position.

If the ballast was bad, it would run in the start position then die once you let off the key to run position.

 

[Sixpactogo]

If the ballast was bad, it would run in the start position then die once you let off the key to run position.

That would be true in the dual ballast resistor but not the single.

 

[91r/t]

That would be true in the dual ballast resistor but not the single.

Its true in both. When you are in the start position, your ballast is bypassed completely. The coil gets a full 12V sent to it when cranking and bypasses the ballast then goes through it once in the run position.

 

[Tony Wessels]

Thanks for all the help. I’ll look into these things one at a time and will report back when I get it figured out.

Given that the ignition was converted over to an electronic ignition, does it have a ballast resistor? I don’t see a whitish looking one (like they sell at the auto parts store) near the distributor or on the firewall.

 

[Ranger16]

Given that the ignition was converted over to an electronic ignition, does it have a ballast resistor? I don’t see a whitish looking one (like they sell at the auto parts store) near the distributor or on the firewall.

Mine does, but it is a Mopar Performance system. I think some (maybe MSD) do not use it.

 

[Jcharger]

you can still use the volt meter to test the switch and voltages for diagnosis.

 

[91r/t]

Thanks for all the help. I’ll look into these things one at a time and will report back when I get it figured out.

Given that the ignition was converted over to an electronic ignition, does it have a ballast resistor? I don’t see a whitish looking one (like they sell at the auto parts store) near the distributor or on the firewall.

That diagram I posted shows the system with the 4/5 pin standard mopar electronic ignition. If you have the conversion using that style, this diagram should be exactly what you have. If you see anything like this with your system, it is what they used. If they used MSD or another aftermarket unit, they sometimes are internally regulated and do not use a ballast resistor.

 

[Tony Wessels]

I’m using the silver control module, pictured above. I’ll follow the wire coming from the number “1” in your diagram and follow it to the ballast resistor. I’m thinking I should start with that before checking the ignition switch. Agree?

 

[Ron H]

I had converted my 63 to electronic years ago before some the newer systems came out. One time when it wouldn't start it was the box pictured above that was bad...new one and started right up. After having gone through other components, ballast, etc. Not to get too fundamental, no spark or fuel most of the time. Check to see you got spark at the plug during cranking...if you find no smell of gas putting your sniffer near the carb after pumping and cranking a few times then it could be no fuel reaching the carb. No ballast...or box yeah sounds like a different setup as posted..

 

[91r/t]

I’m using the silver control module, pictured above. I’ll follow the wire coming from the number “1” in your diagram and follow it to the ballast resistor. I’m thinking I should start with that before checking the ignition switch. Agree?

Yea just make sure you have 12V on the run side of the ballast going in with the key on. If you dont, then follow it back to the ignition. If you have power there, I would change the ballast out and try that. You can test the ballast resistor with an ohm meter as well just to be sure.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

OK, I will throw in my 2-cents. You have TWO hot wires powering your ignition. There is a brown wire that supplies a full 12V during cranking & a blue wire that supplies voltage while running.

If you have a ballast resistor, the blue wire's 12V is dropped down to 7V (?) going through the ballast resistor.

Based on what you describe, where you say "it almost wanted to start when I turn off the key". To me, that sounds like the brown wire isn't getting the 12V to the ignition (while cranking), but the blue wire still has power (while key is in "run" position). (fyi-both the brown & blue wire come from the ignition switch through the bulkhead disconnect to the ignition)

a. check the + side of the ignition coil to see if you have voltage while cranking the engine (12V). This will test the brown wire.
b. check the + side of the ignition coil to see if you have voltage with the key in the "on" position (12V if you don't have a ballast resistor OR 7V if you do have a ballast resistor). This will test the blue wire.

Assuming my guess is correct, you will have NO voltage while cranking & 12V or 7V with the key on. If I'm correct, then trace back the brown wire to check for voltage (all while cranking):
1. At the bulkhead disconnect (back of brown wire while plugged in)
2. At the female plug where the brown wire goes (unplugged - checking bulkhead disconnect, not the brown wire itself) - might as well look for corrosion and/or if the brown wire has become partially un-plugged while you're at it.
3. Trace that brown wire, under the dash, back to the ignition switch & check for 12V again while cranking.

Once you find where you have 12V, then the problem is "down stream" of that. It could even be a broken wire (or bulkhead disconnect connection, ignition switch, wire under the dash too).

A much faster way is to actually "hot wire" the car. Make a long jumper wire going from the + of the battery to the + of the ignition coil. An alligator clip on the battery end would be a good idea since you don't want to leave this wire hooked up for more than a minute or so. With the jumper wire hooked up, crank the engine & see if it starts. Once started, immediately remove that jumper wire. This would also tell you if you have a problem in "the brown wire circuit"

HOPE THIS HELPS!

 

[91r/t]

OK, I will throw in my 2-cents. You have TWO hot wires powering your ignition. There is a brown wire that supplies a full 12V during cranking & a blue wire that supplies voltage while running.

If you have a ballast resistor, the blue wire's 12V is dropped down to 7V (?) going through the ballast resistor.

Based on what you describe, where you say "it almost wanted to start when I turn off the key". To me, that sounds like the brown wire isn't getting the 12V to the ignition (while cranking), but the blue wire still has power (while key is in "run" position). (fyi-both the brown & blue wire come from the ignition switch through the bulkhead disconnect to the ignition)

a. check the + side of the ignition coil to see if you have voltage while cranking the engine (12V). This will test the brown wire.
b. check the + side of the ignition coil to see if you have voltage with the key in the "on" position (12V if you don't have a ballast resistor OR 7V if you do have a ballast resistor). This will test the blue wire.

Assuming my guess is correct, you will have NO voltage while cranking & 12V or 7V with the key on. If I'm correct, then trace back the brown wire to check for voltage (all while cranking):
1. At the bulkhead disconnect (back of brown wire while plugged in)
2. At the female plug where the brown wire goes (unplugged - checking bulkhead disconnect, not the brown wire itself) - might as well look for corrosion and/or if the brown wire has become partially un-plugged while you're at it.
3. Trace that brown wire, under the dash, back to the ignition switch & check for 12V again while cranking.

Once you find where you have 12V, then the problem is "down stream" of that. It could even be a broken wire (or bulkhead disconnect connection, ignition switch, wire under the dash too).

A much faster way is to actually "hot wire" the car. Make a long jumper wire going from the + of the battery to the + of the ignition coil. An alligator clip on the battery end would be a good idea since you don't want to leave this wire hooked up for more than a minute or so. With the jumper wire hooked up, crank the engine & see if it starts. Once started, immediately remove that jumper wire. This would also tell you if you have a problem in "the brown wire circuit"

HOPE THIS HELPS!

Yea what he said ^^

 

[Don Frelier]

I drove my Charger for over a year with a bad start ignition connector at the bulkhead.
It ran so well I could get it to start when I let the key off the start back to run.
I replaced the ballast resistor, mine is a dual, still no change.
Finally one day I had a little time to look into it, found one of the pins on the bulkhead pushed out of the housing.
Around that same time period I put in a Dakota starter.
It starts pretty easily now.

 

[Sixpactogo]

When you finish with all the tests described in these posts and it still won't run, the problem could still be an open plate coil inside the distributor

 

[super-bee_ski]

i have a 1964 Dodge 440. It currently has a 383 in it and it’s been converted to an electronic ignition. It was running fine and the next day it wouldn’t start. The engine cranks great but it won’t start. I replaced the ignition control module as that is usually the first thing that goes bad. Didn’t work. I then replaced the cap and rotor. No change. I then replaced the coil. No change. I had the battery tested and it’s fine. I’ve even tried pouring a little gas into the carb but nothing. I’m about at my whit’s end and would appreciate some help.

One thing that seems a bit odd, after having engaged the starter with the key and turning the key back to the left to remove the key from the ignition it almost seems like the engine, briefly, wants to fire. It doesn’t do this all the time.

Thanks,
Tony

I have seen this before, I replaced the ....YUP....wait for it....Distributor, installed a DUI, and it Never failed again...
I know, I know....
But, EXACT same thing on one of mine....

Simply leaving the KEY on, can burn out the ECU