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Dangerous Car Features of the Past

I found this explanation online:

After the Ford Pinto was recalled in 1978, the fuel tank was modified with the following changes:
  • Plastic shield: A polyethylene shield was installed across the front of the fuel tank.


  • Fuel filler pipe: The fuel filler pipe and seal were replaced with a longer pipe and improved seal.


  • Gaskets and seals: New gaskets and seals were installed.


  • Fuel filler cap: A stronger fuel filler cap was installed.


  • Bracketry and hardware: Bracketry and hardware were installed.
View attachment 1763364
The Pinto's gas tank was vulnerable to puncturing or rupturing in rear-end collisions because it was positioned behind the rear axle and close to the rear bumper. The lack of reinforcements or shields between the tank and rear bumper allowed direct contact with the tank.
I thought the primary issue was pushing the tank into the rear axle with all its shark edges to slice open the tank or was that a later Crown vic problem with rear ended Cop cars?.

Personally, in the era I thought SW;s of the 60's and 70's with their LR quarter vertically mounted fuel tanks with zero real protection were a constant ticking time bomb.
 
I thought the primary issue was pushing the tank into the rear axle with all its shark edges to slice open the tank or was that a later Crown vic problem with rear ended Cop cars?
That was exactly the issue. Right after they discovered that, lots of different cars had tank to diff shields..
 
Maybe your humor feature is disabled.
I find TOO many things funny, which may be part of the problem
You missed not only the joke but the serious part.
I wrote that the "vanity mirror" wasn't originally called a make up mirror but for some people, it has become that.
To me, theyre one in the same. A "vanity" is a place for women to do makeup. Ergo vanity mirror= make up mirror.
otherwise a cars vanity mirror would simply be in place for women to admire their already done make up. ( maybe thats the case)
Look at the response in pure literal form.
I joked about men applying make up because you never mentioned women. I don't want to see pictures of an man wearing make up so I requested No pictures, please.
Got that one ,AND thought it was funny
To be clear, I only referred to that feature as a vanity mirror in all of my years. I assumed that was the industry term as well.
:thumbsup:
 
I'm assuming that the "vanity mirror" moniker that I referenced was coined by automakers to avoid liability charges.
Maybe it was just a generic term that people disregarded anyway?
As in.....WHY do companies call their products sanitary napkins...? We know their one and only use.
 
I'm assuming that the "vanity mirror" moniker that I referenced was coined by automakers to avoid liability charges.
Maybe it was just a generic term that people disregarded anyway?
As in.....WHY do companies call their products sanitary napkins...? We know their one and only use.
Weeeell, the 'napkins' are sanitary......would you rather have someone use toilet tissue like what was done before SN's? That was gross back then!
 
Dont ya just hate it when you have to explain your jokes haha
Maybe your humor feature is disabled.







You missed not only the joke but the serious part.
I wrote that the "vanity mirror" wasn't originally called a make up mirror but for some people, it has become that.
Look at the response in pure literal form.
I joked about men applying make up because you never mentioned women. I don't want to see pictures of an man wearing make up so I requested No pictures, please.
To be clear, I only referred to that feature as a vanity mirror in all of my years. I assumed that was the industry term as well.
 
I find TOO many things funny, which may be part of the problem

To me, theyre one in the same. A "vanity" is a place for women to do makeup. Ergo vanity mirror= make up mirror.
otherwise a cars vanity mirror would simply be in place for women to admire their already done make up. ( maybe thats the case)

As a child of a single-parent home, I remember my working mom applying some of her make up at stop lights on the drive to my school. The easy stuff, like lipstick and eye liner. I'm sure it saved time in those busy mornings. I'm not sure it's much different, modern day, with people sending a text message at a stop light. Short of having to honk to wake the cell phone users up, I'm not sure I see a safety issue with these things.

Of course, using the vanity mirror or cell phone WHILE driving, that's clearly a safety issue.
 
As a child of a single-parent home, I remember my working mom applying some of her make up at stop lights on the drive to my school.
I see you're from the west coast. Would that have been in California?

:lol:
 
What really got Ford in trouble was not the design so much as an internal memo that surfaced during discovery. The bean counters had done a detailed cost benefit analysis assessing costs of a safer crush zone against legal costs of the fires that would result with the original design. Ford MoCo decided the fires were cheaper, and put it in writing. The move made financial sense at the time, but became a public relations disaster for the ages.
The "internal memo" wasn't, in reality, a FoMoCo internal memo, it was a memo from the NHTSA to all US car manufacturers including Ford. As you're aware, this wasn't just studied in your law classes, it's been studied in law classes across the nation and hailed as the acme of product liability success. However, since it's been so studied, plenty of new and accurate information has come out. It seems the lawyers, news media, especially Mother Jones, etc. were lying, big shock. Regardless, the lies still created "a public relations nightmare for the ages". In a 1991 Rutgers Law Review article by Gary Schwartz, he notes that everyone's perceived ideas about the fabled "smoking gun" memo are false (the one supposedly dealing with how it was cheaper to save money on a small part and pay off later lawsuits). The actual memo did not pertain to Pintos, or even Ford products, but to American cars in general; it dealt with rollovers, not rear-end collisions; it did not contemplate the matter of tort liability at all, let alone accept it as cheaper than a design change; it assigned a value to human life because federal regulators, for whose eyes it was meant, themselves employed that concept in their deliberations; and the value it used was one that they, the regulators, had set forth in documents. I believe it was the garbage rag Mother Jones that was the source of the lie that the NHTSA memo was a FoMoCo memo. In that same article Schwartz also points out the actual deaths in Pinto fires have come in at a known 27, this number has been verified numerous times throughout the decades, not the thousand or more that the public was made to believe. Schwartz also wrote, "the Pinto's safety record appears to have been very typical of its time and class. In 10 years of production, and 20 years that followed, with over 2 million (there were actually over 3 million) Pintos produced, no more people died in fires from Pintos as died in fires from Maximas". All these facts have been verified numerous times over the years by other reputable sources.

The supposed design flaw of the Pinto was that in a heavy enough rear end accident, the front of the gas tank could come in contact with a bolt on the differential, rupturing it. It's important to note that the supposed problem was only with the sedans and hatchbacks, not the station wagons. Through testing it was found, however, that it was extremely difficult for the gas tank to come in contact with any bolts that might be able to accomplish this, unless the car was hit from behind at over 50 mph. In the autopsy for the initial accident in '78 that started this controversy, it was shown that the occupants died from the impact, not from the fire (the accident was caused by an inattentive driver in a chevy van driving onto the shoulder and hitting the parked but running Pinto from behind at over 50 mph). The biggest problem was in a hard enough rearend collision the gas tank could shift, and the filler neck could pull out of the tank causing a fuel spill. A number of our Mopars have the same potential problem with the filler neck behind the license plate. In a rearend collision the tank could shift, and the filler neck could pullout. I suppose in a hard enough rearend collision it could drive the filler neck through the bottom of the tank, of course the occupants would most likely be dead from the impact anyway, so does it really matter?
 
As a child of a single-parent home, I remember my working mom applying some of her make up at stop lights on the drive to my school. The easy stuff, like lipstick and eye liner.
I have read that women are much better at multi-tasking. Something about men only have one thing on their mind.
Guilty as charged. :bananadance:
 
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All compact cars of the Pinto era would have a gas tank rupture when hit from behind at high speed. Corolla, Civic, Vega, Hornet shared the same configuration. The Pinto was a victim of success. It sold 3 times the numbers of the competition and due to so many on the road it was highly likely to be in the press over fatalities.

Now having said that it is a unforgivable sin that Ford Motor Company played a numbers game on death payouts versus the cost of a recall. Those guys, including Lee Iacocca should be ashamed of what they did for their Pinto customers.
The 70 Charger has a bracket on the passengers side rear framerail that keeps the fuel tank from becoming dislodged from the filler tube in the event of a rear end collision that the 68 and 69 Chargers do not have.
 
The "internal memo" wasn't, in reality, a FoMoCo internal memo, it was a memo from the NHTSA to all US car manufacturers including Ford. As you're aware, this wasn't just studied in your law classes, it's been studied in law classes across the nation and hailed as the acme of product liability success. However, since it's been so studied, plenty of new and accurate information has come out. It seems the lawyers, news media, especially Mother Jones, etc. were lying, big shock. Regardless, the lies still created "a public relations nightmare for the ages". In a 1991 Rutgers Law Review article by Gary Schwartz, he notes that everyone's perceived ideas about the fabled "smoking gun" memo are false (the one supposedly dealing with how it was cheaper to save money on a small part and pay off later lawsuits). The actual memo did not pertain to Pintos, or even Ford products, but to American cars in general; it dealt with rollovers, not rear-end collisions; it did not contemplate the matter of tort liability at all, let alone accept it as cheaper than a design change; it assigned a value to human life because federal regulators, for whose eyes it was meant, themselves employed that concept in their deliberations; and the value it used was one that they, the regulators, had set forth in documents. I believe it was the garbage rag Mother Jones that was the source of the lie that the NHTSA memo was a FoMoCo memo. In that same article Schwartz also points out the actual deaths in Pinto fires have come in at a known 27, this number has been verified numerous times throughout the decades, not the thousand or more that the public was made to believe. Schwartz also wrote, "the Pinto's safety record appears to have been very typical of its time and class. In 10 years of production, and 20 years that followed, with over 2 million (there were actually over 3 million) Pintos produced, no more people died in fires from Pintos as died in fires from Maximas". All these facts have been verified numerous times over the years by other reputable sources.

The supposed design flaw of the Pinto was that in a heavy enough rear end accident, the front of the gas tank could come in contact with a bolt on the differential, rupturing it. It's important to note that the supposed problem was only with the sedans and hatchbacks, not the station wagons. Through testing it was found, however, that it was extremely difficult for the gas tank to come in contact with any bolts that might be able to accomplish this, unless the car was hit from behind at over 50 mph. In the autopsy for the initial accident in '78 that started this controversy, it was shown that the occupants died from the impact, not from the fire (the accident was caused by an inattentive driver in a chevy van driving onto the shoulder and hitting the parked but running Pinto from behind at over 50 mph). The biggest problem was in a hard enough rearend collision the gas tank could shift, and the filler neck could pull out of the tank causing a fuel spill. A number of our Mopars have the same potential problem with the filler neck behind the license plate. In a rearend collision the tank could shift, and the filler neck could pullout. I suppose in a hard enough rearend collision it could drive the filler neck through the bottom of the tank, of course the occupants would most likely be dead from the impact anyway, so does it really matter?
Interesting. Your backstory here dovetails well with the often-repeated misleading story of the Polish Army attacking German armor on horseback in 1939.
The misled reader shares some blame here IMO for lack of critical thinking analysis.
 
Unsafe features...somebody already mentioned the quarter-panel "suitcase" fuel tanks in wagons.

Rear facing trunk seats in wagons.

Roll-down tailgate windows in wagons.

(Yep! I have a '72 Satellite wagon!)

I had a 72 D200, guess where the gas tank was in that one? Yep! Inside the cab!! Although that's not too much worse than modern cars like my '14 Grand Cherokee (and my '91 Daytona) where the tank is under the back seat....

And FWIW, my '06 wrangler has a gas tank mounted (tightly) between the rear bumper and the rear diff.....but I spend too much time on motorcycles to worry about piddly **** like this lol
 
When I was a corporate general counsel, I had a hard time explaining why I didn’t like cya memos, and later, emails. I used to cite the Pinto case.
True that. We have been advised to be cautious using fail, failure etc in emails for fear of discovery. We do get sued a couple times a year regarding airplane crashes. Mostly general aviation stuff when there is a death. I get some of these to research and found there are bad pilots too. Not unlike bad car drivers.
 
All the talk of doing makeup or texting while driving reminds me of the driving sin I used to commit all the time, driving while holding a Thomas Bros map book in one hand and reading it to figure out my next turn etc.
 
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