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droping aluminum heads on a stock 440

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adam83

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If i took the fully assembled steal aluminum heads from the 440 source, and bolted them on to a later 70's stock 440 engine, making any changes I needed to (cam, pushrods, intake manifold, carb), how wild of cam could I use, and how long would the lower end be able to last?
 
If by stock you mean stock crank, rods, and pistons with new bearing, rings, new oil pump, etc. ... probably indefinitely as long as it was put back together and properly broken in and maintained (oil changes) If by stock you mean as is / not tearing it down and just running it, I'd have to say don't know what condition your condition is in.

Also what do you mean by "fully assembled steal aluminum heads"?
 
adam83 said:
If i took the fully assembled steal aluminum heads from the 440 source, and bolted them on to a later 70's stock 440 engine, making any changes I needed to (cam, pushrods, intake manifold, carb), how wild of cam could I use, and how long would the lower end be able to last?
Click to expand...

what would the heads have to do with bottom longevity unless you dropped a valve ? Once it's together,regardless of what was done to the heads, the motor is on the clock...anything could happen, or not happen for a long time.
 
You can put as big of a cam as the valve springs can stand. A 750 lift roller will go in a stone stock engine and run just fine with matching valve springs and valve train hardware. It will be a dead dog until about 5K RPM, but it will run.
 
There's a myth about doing a valve job to an old engine and then that makes the rings and bearings fail. A lot of people still believe that crap.....so he may be concerned about that. If the bottom end is in good shape to start with, there's no reason why you can't do that. Thing is, are you going to install big valve heads and big cam in a low compression engine and have a low rpm slug?
 
A low Compression engine can only use so much cam. The use of the stealth heads on a low compression engine is a waste. The stock heads well prep'd can flow well. The small cam will not lift the valves enough to make the stealth heads a worthy purchase. They'll be no performance gain. Just a loss of money.

Describe what the 440 is in and what gear ratio you plan on running.
A good intake to run is a RPM with a 750 on top. Comp cams and other good companies will have kits that include everything to run with the cam. Lifters and springs in the kit at a min.!
 
1st off, sorry for the lack of info, I wasnt entirely sober when I posted that thread, and I find it hilarious that the big lebowski was referenced. I've found a few complete, stock 440's on craigslist that I want to throw in my charger to drive it around while I build my other engine, they are running and some still in the vehicles so I can hear them run before I buy. Anyways, I will be piecing together my build for my car and will most likely get the stealth heads from 440 source, and a stroker kit and a bare block to start with, BUT, I was curious about throwing the heads on the running 440 to see if I could get a performance gain. When I get the engine, I will describe in detail what it is, but for now all I know is they are most likely bone stick 440 truck motors
 
rumblefish360 said:
A low Compression engine can only use so much cam. The use of the stealth heads on a low compression engine is a waste. The stock heads well prep'd can flow well. The small cam will not lift the valves enough to make the stealth heads a worthy purchase. They'll be no performance gain. Just a loss of money.

Describe what the 440 is in and what gear ratio you plan on running.
A good intake to run is a RPM with a 750 on top. Comp cams and other good companies will have kits that include everything to run with the cam. Lifters and springs in the kit at a min.!
Click to expand...

Sorry, but the notion that a small cam will not lift high enough to make a difference with aluminum heads is in error. The flow difference in the lower lifts are a substantial gain over the factory iron head. You would need to install larger valves and do considerable bowl work to get to the flows offered by the Stealth.

Lift.................Stock 906..............Stock 452............OOTB Stealth

.100..................66...........................61.......................66
.200.................130........................130......................142
.300.................189........................188......................205
.400.................222........................213......................240

Then add to this the slight compression gain you will get with the Stealth head and you will get an even greater performance boost. Remember that the tall tale that aluminum needs a compression boost to be equal with iron is a crock.
 
The better port design of the aluminum head does not mean you have to run a .600" lift cam. As the numbers above state you can use the aluminum head to your advantage and have a much better street engine with a milder cam.

To illustrate my point the best example of everything you believe won't work as assembled in one engine was my old 72 Porsche 911 T. The bone stock 2.4L engine has a bore size of about 3.5"; valves the size of a 360 MoPar (1.88" x 1.60"); 8.0:1 compression; blew 160 PSI of cylinder pressure; idle smooth as silk and ran right to 6000 RPM like it was nothing. And of course those are SOHC hemis. There is lots of room for making big HP numbers (2.4 RS) but you don't have to use it all.
 
IQ52; while you are correct, I took it from the point of view of bang for the buck. By all means, if someone wants to spend *** for there aluminum heads on a stock engine, why go right a head and feel the power difference blow you draws right off your legs.

I still stand by what I said because I really do not feel it is not worth the money to put aluminum heads on a stock engine with a small or stock cam. It isn't going to be the big power maker worth jack when all is said and done.

Sorry to all for any misunderstanding in what I wrote to what I ment to say and the feeling of the post I made must have been poor.

I still see the iron head as worthy area to put bucks into if the goal can be me cheaply enough.
 
Last edited:
Rob, I think we all knew how you meant it.....I KNOW I did because I have to buy toilet paper on a budget. lol
 
rumblefish360 said:
IQ52; while you are correct, I took it from the point of view of bang for the buck. By all means, if someone wants to spend *** for there aluminum heads on a stock engine, why go right a head and feel the power difference blow you draws right off your legs.

I still stand by what I said because I really do not feel it is not worth the money to put aluminum heads on a stock engine with a small or stock cam. It isn't going to be the big power maker worth jack when all is said and done.

Sorry to all for any misunderstanding in what I wrote to what I ment to say and the feeling of the post I made must have been poor.

I still see the iron head as worthy area to put bucks into if the goal can be me cheaply enough.
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree with your iron head observation. Here are some flow tests with the 452 iron head compared to an OOTB Edelbrock VICTOR. 1) stock 452, 2) 452 with 2.14/1.81 valves, 3) test #2 with minor throat and bowl work, 4) #2 & #3 with porting, 5) OOTB Victor

Lift............(1)...........(2)...........(3)...........(4)............(5)

.100.......61/55.......64/56.......67/60.......68/60........68/63
.200.....130/108...133/114....137/130...142/130.....133/124
.300.....188/152...187/149....199/187...205/187.....201/179
.400.....213/172...211/166....239/218...248/218.....250/218
.500.....227/178...224/170....256/234...286/234.....287/240
.600.....230/181...229/171....262/245...292/245.....307/253

Note that just installing big valves in the 452 head actually hurt the flow until the supporting throat and bowl work was done. There was no additional porting done to the 452 exhaust after the initial clean up because even after some serious intake porting, the exhaust was flowing 84% of the intake.

Look what the ported 452 head can do compared to the OOTB Victor up to .500" lift. The valves, guides, seals and porting for the 452 will cost less than the Victor heads purchased with the valves and seals.

The real trick is finding the line where rebuilding or buying new is best.
 
Jim, just pure speculation I know.....but what kind of HP figures could the heads in column "4" support....roughly?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Jim, just pure speculation I know.....but what kind of HP figures could the heads in column "4" support....roughly?
Click to expand...

I've seem 'em do 620+ with 9.5:1 compression @ .600" lift, on the very first engine I ever built.

That be enough?
 
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