Eagle crankshafts and ESP armor finish

[dvw]

Good thing the Eagles crank isn’t coated but it is a finishing process.

You coated the mains and rods?
Main what? I’m missing something.
How much power was/is your build?

I did not coat the crank/rods, but the bearings. My motor has never been dynoed. It has been 9.02@151mph at 3350lbs so it makes somewhere around 900 hp. Power increase when coating/finishing the crank and rods would be proportional to how poor the oil control is in the crankcase. Were they using a deep pan? crank scraper? thin oil? See if the stock, S/S, Comp eliminator racers use this process. That will be the telling tale. I can tell you that even swapping from 20w50 regular oil to 0w30 synthetic gained less than .05 in ET. Gaining 4% power with out going into the basics, cam, heads, intake,compression is very tough, very costly. Lots of HP claims. Lets see how much faster the car goes.
Doug

 

[biomedtechguy]

Doug-WOW! 9.02 @ 151 !

Everything was identical, including the crankshaft. This applies to every dyno test done on ESP armor. They ran the test, removed the crankshaft, sent it to Eagle for the ESP armor treatment, reinstalled it (bearing journal size unchanged by the treatment) and voila! More power.
To each his own, I'm doing it. Thanks for the replies.
For any of you doing a teardown, you may want to consider having your crankshaft finished by Eagle with the ESP armor treatment.
http://www.eaglerod.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=27
Tell them Steve with the yellow Roadrunner referred you...maybe I can get a discount. Lol.

 

[dvw]

Doug-WOW! 9.02 @ 151 !
View attachment 542396
Everything was identical, including the crankshaft. This applies to every dyno test done on ESP armor. They ran the test, removed the crankshaft, sent it to Eagle for the ESP armor treatment, reinstalled it (bearing journal size unchanged by the treatment) and voila! More power.
To each his own, I'm doing it. Thanks for the replies.
For any of you doing a teardown, you may want to consider having your crankshaft finished by Eagle with the ESP armor treatment.
http://www.eaglerod.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7&Itemid=27
Tell them Steve with the yellow Roadrunner referred you...maybe I can get a discount. Lol.

I did't mean the tests were different. What I meant was if the windage was controlled to begin with, the gain may have been far less. My crank certainly isn't "zoomy". I'd spend that money on the heads.
Doug

 

[moparnation74]

To each his own, I'm doing it. Thanks for the replies.

Has anyone read this?

 

[moper]

I tend to think the coating helps with shedding, and it would be feasible to see measurable gains with that, and an associated loss of heat transfer into the oil from the parts. I've got a hard time accepting something like this, that is that effective, would not be in use either in production engines or high-dollar race teams.

 

[rumblefish360]

Well, I’m not money bags to do the same test Eagle did so it is ether believe it or don’t. But if I had loads of cash to waste, I’d do it in several different builds from mild to wild and see what’s what.

From here, drink the spin doctors kool aid or not. Beats me what the truth is but a 4% gain for a couple hundred in a fresh build.... sounds OK.

 

[moparcrazy]

Has anyone read this?

View attachment 542437

i think Biomedtecguy is just very excited about this new process, and look's to very affordable, there will always be skeptics until more people verify what Eagle is saying to be true, But who's going to offer a one year Guaranty on a product that does nothing?? NOBODY these guys are offing ONE YEAR on breakage if you have this process done to your crank!!
That's a no brainer plus up to 4% Gaines, makes you wanna stop and tear your motor down ?? ok maybe not that Far, Lol !!

 

[biomedtechguy]

Biomedtecguy is just very excited about this new process

 

[moparnation74]

i think Biomedtecguy is just very excited about this new process, and look's to very affordable, there will always be skeptics until more people verify what Eagle is saying to be true, But who's going to offer a one year Guaranty on a product that does nothing?? NOBODY these guys are offing ONE YEAR on breakage if you have this process done to your crank!!
That's a no brainer plus up to 4% Gaines, makes you wanna stop a tear your motor down ?? ok maybe not that Far, Lol !!

As I said earlier if this was offered when I bought my Eagle crank. I would have done it as well....It is a no brainer and my $$ to waste....Any gain/longevity and a one year warranty well thats using simple logic to try this....pennies on the dollar in relation to the whole build cost....

 

[biomedtechguy]

pennies on the dollar in relation to the whole build cost.

Let's see...
$4X,000+ for the car (thanks USAA) $5K for the transmission, $1,100 for the headers, a few hundred $ for parts and $700 labor to setup the rear end 4.10 along with some brake work, $650 for the N96 hood, $700 to get the hood painted, and probably going to be $11k-or more for the stroker build, and Eagle charges $240 for ESP on the crank and $114 for ESP finish on 8 rods....My yellow-top Optima battery cost at least $200..and on and on.
Hmmmmm.

 

[rumblefish360]

Exactly. What’s $334 bucks in a build of thousands?

 

[Fran Blacker]

A few hundred few hundred pretty soon your talking real money.

Paraphrasing Everett Dirksen .

 

[dvw]

If you're spending $5000 on a trans and $700 to set up a ring a pinion you should've called me.
Doug

 

[moper]

I am not disputing the cost but I'm a natural skeptic. Honestly if you're buying an engine and spending the dollar mentioned on a dyno'd drop in engine and it doesn't have a warranty on labor, you're already at the wrong shop as dvw notes...lol.
My perspective is this: They said the only part changed was the crank. So the coating, in my opinion, was not the only thing altered by pulling, coating, and reinstalling a crank. So journal finish is not the only thing affected by that replacement. There's cycling on the fasteners, a pre-run rear main seal, etc. which when added with a coating that sheds oil (oil cannot transfer heat as efficiently if it's not in contact with the parts hence the warm up time), leads to measurable gains on the dyno.
I'm not saying the coating is not worth the cost. I'm suggesting it's not the sole reason for the gain if that makes sense.

 

[biomedtechguy]

If you're spending $5000 on a trans and $700 to set up a ring a pinion you should've called me.
Doug

Transmission is the Passon a855.
Ring and pinion install/setup along with minor brake service done by local 4x4 shop that also does muscle cars, is knowledgeable, and I trust their work, and I had a short timeline that I needed it done in.
I appreciate the offer Doug, and I try to wrench on my Roadrunner and my wife's GTO myself as much as I can, but sometimes it makes more sense to have someone do it for me who knows what they're doing so I can repair and service medical equipment with my one-man company, which I know well and usually make more per hour than they charge me for doing what they know. In other words I'm making money by having the time to do my work, leaving work on the cars to those who are experienced and trusted, and back their work if necessary.
I still have to choose an engine builder. Jim LaRoy is not available. I have a few in mind, but no one I have committed to. Must have extensive knowledge of the 6bbl aluminum Edelbrock intake and Holley carbs in a stroker application 6XX HP AND TQ is my goal, on 91-93 octane pump gas with an octane booster as an option.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I am not disputing the cost but I'm a natural skeptic. Honestly if you're buying an engine and spending the dollar mentioned on a dyno'd drop in engine and it doesn't have a warranty on labor, you're already at the wrong shop as dvw notes...lol.
My perspective is this: They said the only part changed was the crank. So the coating, in my opinion, was not the only thing altered by pulling, coating, and reinstalling a crank. So journal finish is not the only thing affected by that replacement. There's cycling on the fasteners, a pre-run rear main seal, etc. which when added with a coating that sheds oil (oil cannot transfer heat as efficiently if it's not in contact with the parts hence the warm up time), leads to measurable gains on the dyno.
I'm not saying the coating is not worth the cost. I'm suggesting it's not the sole reason for the gain if that makes sense.

ALL opinions and commentary was welcome. I posted here for opinions and experiences with Eagle and their ESP armor treatment, and I appreciate it.

 

[rumblefish360]

Reused fasteners and used oil seal as power adders over new?

 

[dvw]

Transmission is the Passon a855.
Ring and pinion install/setup along with minor brake service done by local 4x4 shop that also does muscle cars, is knowledgeable, and I trust their work, and I had a short timeline that I needed it done in.
I appreciate the offer Doug, and I try to wrench on my Roadrunner and my wife's GTO myself as much as I can, but sometimes it makes more sense to have someone do it for me who knows what they're doing so I can repair and service medical equipment with my one-man company, which I know well and usually make more per hour than they charge me for doing what they know. In other words I'm making money by having the time to do my work, leaving work on the cars to those who are experienced and trusted, and back their work if necessary.
I still have to choose an engine builder. Jim LaRoy is not available. I have a few in mind, but no one I have committed to. Must have extensive knowledge of the 6bbl aluminum Edelbrock intake and Holley carbs in a stroker application 6XX HP AND TQ is my goal, on 91-93 octane pump gas with an octane booster as an option.

True enough it doesn't make sense to spend more time than you could make money yourself. I've do 95% of my own stuff. It started back when I had very little money and has just stuck with me.
Doug

 

[not so famous bob]

ALL opinions and commentary was welcome. I posted here for opinions and experiences with Eagle and their ESP armor treatment, and I appreciate it.

I remember when this process first came about. Their advertisement said it made things more slippery / less friction.

 

[1967coronet440]

Best pic I could find, looks like i may have gotten the ESP treatment. It did not specify on my invoice from Chicago connection.