Electrical issues with pictures battery cable

[snakeoil24]

So there is no flux used as when I splice wires and solder them? No flux creates really no bond? No bond means room for corrosion, dampness ect to set in? So that low melt **** only makes a quick for the factory cable but not really a bulletproof build. That is what I find fascinating from a made in USA manufacturer. Little **** like that is why the space shuttle exploded, right?

Flux is built into the pellet

 

[northeastmoparnet]

Flux is built into the pellet

Oh wow. That makes sense maybe the cable moved when they cast it as it was drying. I am done on this topic. I have soldered many many things and used all sorts of torches and welders and soldering guns. But I must say, I have never owned a battery cable factory so this stuff is all greek to me. You sound like you are into this electrical stuff and I appreciate the education and help. Happy New Year....

 

[RJRENTON]

The starter takes as many amps as it takes to turn the engine. Approx 200-250. actual number not important.

Now BOTH battery cables need to flow that many amps for the starter to function.

Due to bad connection (resistance) that negative cable couldn't flow enough amps to make the starter work.

To make it harder to find, it will flow enough amps to turn on lights, radio and other small draw electrical things so it makes you think it's fine and the starter is bad.

The actual amps the starter draws is a function of the compression ratio, bearing clearance, oil viscosity, transmission oil, PS pump loses, ignition losses, etc. It's not unusual to have the starter draw 400-500 amps, cold engine and 375-450 hot engine. The high amperage will cause a voltage drop from the battery to the starter motor. The OEM Mopar starter is a series wound motor for max torque at locked rotor (starting conditions) and can produce the torque required. MINI starters use permanent magnet field windings and make more torque with less internal losses and less amps from the battery and less cable losses. Crimped anc soldered connections are best....less losses... ehivh allow higher amp flow eith less losses.....including the battery connection cables......just my opinion of course....
BOB RENTON

 

[RJRENTON]

Flux is built into the pellet

Flux is a DEOXIDIZING compound, that when liquefied by heat, cleans or deoxidzes the copper conductors allowing the solder....50%-50% tin lead alloy... to flow and "wet" or break the surface tension of the solder causing it to adhere to the wire promoting lower resistance. Just thought you might like to know.....
BOB RENTON

 

[R413]

The actual amps the starter draws is a function of the compression ratio, bearing clearance, oil viscosity, transmission oil, PS pump loses, ignition losses, etc. It's not unusual to have the starter draw 400-500 amps, cold engine and 375-450 hot engine. The high amperage will cause a voltage drop from the battery to the starter motor. The OEM Mopar starter is a series wound motor for max torque at locked rotor (starting conditions) and can produce the torque required. MINI starters use permanent magnet field windings and make more torque with less internal losses and less amps from the battery and less cable losses. Crimped anc soldered connections are best....less losses... ehivh allow higher amp flow eith less losses.....including the battery connection cables......just my opinion of course....
BOB RENTON

All true, I was trying to point out that BOTH cables need to flow as many amps as the starter needs to operate, not just the positive side.

 

[hunt2elk]

I was trying to think of what is soldered in house wiring and I came up empty handed.

All mechanically connected.
Wonder what the code book says about soldering.

Actually, I have run across quite a few old houses where the connections in all the boxes were soldered and cloth taped. This of course was before wire nuts were invented. 40's - 50's? I have no idea when it was commonplace.

 

[northeastmoparnet]

Actually, I have run across quite a few old houses where the connections in all the boxes were soldered and cloth taped. This of course was before wire nuts were invented. 40's - 50's? I have no idea when it was commonplace.

You are correct. Thay called that knob and tube wiring back in the 30's and 40's It is illegal today.

 

[RJRENTON]

Actually, I have run across quite a few old houses where the connections in all the boxes were soldered and cloth taped. This of course was before wire nuts were invented. 40's - 50's? I have no idea when it was commonplace.

The wiring method you refer to is called: KNOB AND TUBE. Bare wires are strung and supported by porcelain insulators and where the wires passed thru wood supports, ceramic tubes or sleeves were used. Wiring connections were just soldered, wrapped and taped with friction tape ...no wire nuts.....
Just thought you might like to know.....no bx or non metallic cables....just open air.....
BOB RENTON

 

[hunt2elk]

The wiring method you refer to is called: KNOB AND TUBE. Bare wires are strung and supported by porcelain insulators and where the wires passed thru wood supports, ceramic tubes or sleeves were used. Wiring connections were just soldered, wrapped and taped with friction tape ...no wire nuts.....
Just thought you might like to know.....no bx or non metallic cables....just open air.....
BOB RENTON

No it is not Bob. I am well aware what knob and tube is. I spent 25 years in the electrical business wiring residential and small commercial buildings. Got a feeling that is more time in the field in that occupation than you can claim. Even with all of your vast knowledge of everything and anything....

 

[RJRENTON]

No it is not Bob. I am well aware what knob and tube is. I spent 25 years in the electrical business wiring residential and small commercial buildings. Got a feeling that is more time in the field in that occupation than you can claim. Even with all of your vast knowledge....

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME.....if not knob and tube, what is the system (?) called.....never too old or young to learn history. Although my experience is quite diverse....like explosion proof Class I Division I, with panel purge in oil refineries, aerospace, UL 508 designs, HV Substation design (138 kv) and PLTC design in some chemical plants. Please advise at your convenience.....thanks...
BOB RENTON

 

[gtx6970]

When wiring is suspect.
Run a voltage drop test.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Qjjh6BAhHEAE&usg=AOvVaw3a2g9G9CSq1r_Wt0HVXQA6

 

[hunt2elk]

PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME.....if not knob and tube, what is the system (?) called.....never too old or young to learn history. Although my experience is quite diverse....like explosion proof Class I Division I, with panel purge in oil refineries, aerospace, UL 508 designs, HV Substation design (138 kv) and PLTC design in some chemical plants. Please advise at your convenience.....thanks...
BOB RENTON

We were talking about if there was ever any soldering done in residential electrical systems. I made the statement that I have run across quite a few examples where that was the case. Maybe it was just one electrician in my area doing it, idk. Metal boxes, cloth covered conductors. All receptacle, switch, and ceiling boxes. Solid copper wires twisted, soldered, and covered with cloth tape. Well before wire nuts or NM wire had been invented.

 

[R413]

Try this

 

[RemCharger]

Looks like I dropped a stinker in the room when I spoke of soldering lol.
My point stems from seeing issues with solder repairs where the solder pulls in corrosion. That leads to weird problems that require expert gremlin chasing. Not fun. I see it as similar to rust behind lead seams. Also not fun.
Solder joints are mostly found in electronic components in our cars. I don't believe any part of the wiring has solder joints. And I'm good with that.

 

[blue69runner]

Just wanted to chime in on wires. Bought a set of repo wires that were supposed to be as original ones. The car ran fine and had quite a few miles on it with the old starter rebuilt. Headed to a friend's house quite a way away. Stope at a store to get some coffee and it would not start. So, a guy helped push it off. after getting to my friend's place told them the problem and did not want to shut the car off and they told me to shut it down if it was the starter my buddy had another one. Well, we got a mini starter and put it on, and the car cranked. After getting home the next day or so it did the same thing. I tried my battery connections, and all looked good but on the positive wire when I tugged on it, they moved. When crimping leads to the connector it was crimped the way wires were put into the connector. Got my big vise grips with the crimp blade in back part of jaws and crimped it across the wires in the connector. Problem fixed. So, what we get now days just do not stand up to what they portray them to be. It seems to always happen when you are away from home and on the road. LOL. Glad you found the problem.

 

[Demonic]

I've seen this problem more and more lately as the mfg of repo parts is more and more from overseas. Do not assume ANY part is good just because it is new.

 

[blue69runner]

I agree hole heartedly with that. But is frustrating to all of us to pay up front for what is supposed to be original cables. Or any other parts we may buy.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

When wiring is suspect.
Run a voltage drop test.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=APLic9F7ZsA&ved=2ahUKEwjH8JPqlLuDAxW0LUQIHbXXAm0Qjjh6BAhHEAE&usg=AOvVaw3a2g9G9CSq1r_Wt0HVXQA6

That was suggested in post #11 of the original thread.
"...Do a voltage drop test between the engine block and the negative battery post while attempting to crank."

 

[Jc cooper]

Bottom line, if having a DC electrical problem, always, always, consider , the ground side, first! Always!

 

[mountain33]

I crimp my battery cable then flow solder into any gaps around crimp