Engineers really don’t think about maintenance Spark plugs Hemi Ram….

[not so famous bob]

View attachment 1763202

part of a push to stop people from working on their own cars , dealers rape on service like they do on new cars !!

 

[Coelacanth]

I mostly agree with this.... One change.... 3/8" hose is to stiff, use 3/16" hose & instead of grabbing the porcelain grab the terminal.... I used the bigger hose for years till I figured out the smaller hose was better....

Don't some of those metal terminal ends unscrew? I know I've had some spark plugs that had the terminal end piece unscrew from the ceramic part. It wouldn't be too big of a deal though, you would just switch to a bigger hose.

 

[JoePole]

My father in law has a 2014 RAM 1500 5.7 with 105k and has never replaced his plugs. No matter how hard I try I cannot talk him into almost any maintenance except oil change (he's 84). I drove his truck the other day and it actually runs great. Go figure.
My wife has a 12 Jeep Grand Cherokee with 5.7 and replace every 35k. Piece of cake but next time will be iridium.

 

[Budnicks]

I've always figured that before the engineers design something and put it in production, they need to get hands on and work on their creation. Might cut down on some dumb designs.

Engineers
Yeah it's the I can draw it mentality,
so why can't you work on it just as easily too...

 

[1 Wild R/T]

When the engineers got CAD things got a lot worse... The computer says it'll fit right there.... And it will... But you better hope no one ever has to work on it, or anything around it.....

Those things that require the complete engine/trans & subframe to be dropped in order to service something.....

Automotive engineers really should be required to work on cars for a couple years before being allowed to do any mechanical design work...

 

[nitro_rat]

The Gen III Hemis come with Champion copper plugs and they really run best with them. About every 40-50K they need to be replaced for best performance. It's kind of a pain, I think I took the master cylinder nuts off when I did it on my last Hemi Ram 2500 to make access a little easier. An electric ratchet and professional wobbly spark plug sockets of various lengths (snap-on, matco or similar) make the job a lot easier.

The iridium or double platinum plugs last longer but don't perform as well. Kind of like just leaving the worn out Champions in for another 40-60k after they're worn out.

 

[Kern Dog]

part of a push to stop people from working on their own cars , dealers rape on service like they do on new cars !!

No, it isn't. Stop looking too deep into this.
The simple fact is that they were designed to be assembled quickly. Any service after the sale is a distant priority. The manufacturers know that owners have options other than the dealers so your theory on that falls apart.
Blaming "the man" is a cheap gripe.

 

[1STMP]

Engineers
Yeah it's the I can draw it mentality,
so why can't you work on it just as easily too...

As a mechanical engineer
of more than 50 years, I
would like to offer some sort
of defense here.
Almost all of an engineers
decisions when it comes to
designing current
powerplants in EPA
controlled environments,
is just that. EPA driven.
We're tasked with placing
ten pounds of mud in a
five pound space.
Manufacturers are geared
towards warranties which
is where the money is.
Everything on a new car
when it comes to servicing,
is outlined in a service
manual, right down to the
steps required, tools needed,
and any materials required.
There's been efforts
introduced in congress to
totally stop your efforts
from maintaining your
private vehicles. Especially
now with propriatary
computer software.
I have a heart. I love working
on my own stuff, but
recognise full well the
progression of government
intrusion.

 

[F4R/T]

I do agree.. the government is calling the shots on vehicles and that why things are the way they are..

 

[Kern Dog]

I do agree.. the government is calling the shots on vehicles and that why things are the way they are..

Well, to a point. Emissions, yeah but design? No reason to think that the EPA cares about where the alternator is mounted.
The Feds do dictate bumper height, headlight height, minimum crashworthy structures, taillight visibility at specified distances and warranty minimums but I'd think that automakers are free with styling within those guidelines.
There was a Chevy in the 80s/90s that had a transverse mounted V6. To get to the alternator, the engine had to be lowered using a car lift since it was near the firewall. Many of us recall the Chevy Monza that has a 262 or 305, both V8s that supposedly required unbolting the motor mounts and lifting the engine for spark plug access on the drivers side. I recall a picture of some V8, maybe a Cadillac that had the starter UNDER the intake manifold!
Look at how the new vehicles are assembled and it makes sense....The trucks are body on frame. The engines are installed in the frame, then the cab is mounted to the frame.
Even our cars were built in a similar manner....Engines attached to the K member which also had most of the suspension already attached.

 

[F4R/T]

I agree there too! The northstar engine was a pile, many FWD vehicles have the alternator mounted on the rear down low, Ive seen plenty where the intake has to be removed to get a starter out... That’s piss poor design. I hate FWD! Imo most trucks are a safe bet, not the most fun to repair but repairable. So let me rephrase that the government does suck and poor engineering does happen, I just needed a little reminder.

 

[1STMP]

Well, to a point. Emissions, yeah but design? No reason to think that the EPA cares about where the alternator is mounted.
The Feds do dictate bumper height, headlight height, minimum crashworthy structures, taillight visibility at specified distances and warranty minimums but I'd think that automakers are free with styling within those guidelines.
There was a Chevy in the 80s/90s that had a transverse mounted V6. To get to the alternator, the engine had to be lowered using a car lift since it was near the firewall. Many of us recall the Chevy Monza that has a 262 or 305, both V8s that supposedly required unbolting the motor mounts and lifting the engine for spark plug access on the drivers side. I recall a picture of some V8, maybe a Cadillac that had the starter UNDER the intake manifold!
Look at how the new vehicles are assembled and it makes sense....The trucks are body on frame. The engines are installed in the frame, then the cab is mounted to the frame.
Even our cars were built in a similar manner....Engines attached to the K member which also had most of the suspension already attached.

A lot of components used
in a certain vehicle
manufacturers design are
not the designs of the
vehicle manufacturers
themselves. Especially true
when it comes to vehicle
emissions control.
Space claim during design
meetings between different
departments are held on a
regular basis. The goal, to
offer at a competitive price
to the consumer while
keeping manufacturing
cost low enough to maintain
maximum profitability.
The EPA could care less
where a companies profits
lay.
There's thousands of
vehicles on the road today
that take many liberties
when it comes to
government mandated
emissions. The main
reason.....
The ease in which it takes
to work on and fix your
own stuff.
Engineers would love
nothing better than to
stuff a 426 under the
hood with nothing to
worry about other than
crankcase pressures.
The EPA drives almost
every single decision as
to what they require to
meet current standards.
Hence the cost of $78,000
puckup trucks.

 

[1STMP]

When the engineers got CAD things got a lot worse... The computer says it'll fit right there.... And it will... But you better hope no one ever has to work on it, or anything around it.....

Those things that require the complete engine/trans & subframe to be dropped in order to service something.....

Automotive engineers really should be required to work on cars for a couple years before being allowed to do any mechanical design work...

Hey now...
My thoughts applied to a
lifelong career.
Tore down and rebuilt a Ford
390 out of a '62 T-Bird. I was
14. Fixed it. Ràn perfect and
sold the car.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Hey now...
My thoughts applied to a
lifelong career.
Tore down and rebuilt a Ford
390 out of a '62 T-Bird. I was
14. Fixed it. Ràn perfect and
sold the car.

I've worked with a couple engineers with mechanical backgrounds... And a bunch with college degrees & not much else... They are worlds apart...

You can tie current design problems to the EPA and safety mandates to a point, but stupid designs have been around longer than the EPA and safety mandates....

As an example, in the 50's Citroen mounted their water pump on the back of their engine, inside the bellhousing... A part that at that time was commonly replaced at a much higher frequency than water pumps on modern cars...

One that I experienced about ten years ago, a friends Chrysler Sebring Convertible.... Water pump... didn't look to bad so like a fool I accepted the challenge.. It wasn't to bad, until that bolt at the bottom that hides behind the ABS control unit... Which you are supposed to remove according to the service manual... Accept in order to remove it you have to drop the subframe... If the car didn't have ABS the water pump would be a two hour job tops... Instead it wound up taking over eight hours.... There was plenty of room for the ABS in a couple other places but the guy with a CAD system decided it would fit right where he put it... To bad he's never had to change the water pump on one.. He might remember why you need to think about this stuff in the future...

 

[1STMP]

I've worked with a couple engineers with mechanical backgrounds... And a bunch with college degrees & not much else... They are worlds apart...

You can tie current design problems to the EPA and safety mandates to a point, but stupid designs have been around longer than the EPA and safety mandates....

As an example, in the 50's Citroen mounted their water pump on the back of their engine, inside the bellhousing... A part that at that time was commonly replaced at a much higher frequency than water pumps on modern cars...

One that I experienced about ten years ago, a friends Chrysler Sebring Convertible.... Water pump... didn't look to bad so like a fool I accepted the challenge.. It wasn't to bad, until that bolt at the bottom that hides behind the ABS control unit... Which you are supposed to remove according to the service manual... Accept in order to remove it you have to drop the subframe... If the car didn't have ABS the water pump would be a two hour job tops... Instead it wound up taking over eight hours.... There was plenty of room for the ABS in a couple other places but the guy with a CAD system decided it would fit right where he put it... To bad he's never had to change the water pump on one.. He might remember why you need to think about this stuff in the future...

I'll agree that some designs
leave one scratching their
heads for serviceabitity
issues. "What the hell were
they thinking?".
With hundreds of hours in
the drivers' seat of a CAD
station, I've witnessed first
hand, many, many,
questionable design quirks.
In the interest of releasing
future models, deadlines are
a mechanical engineers'
worst enemy.
With just about every
manufacturer I've worked
for (GM, Ford, Chrysler,
Allison, Borg Warner, RTS,
John Deere, Stewart &
Stevenson, BAE Systems),
there are teams assigned
for the major systems.
Powertrain, suspension,
body, electrical. And all
are fighting for available
space to make their
assigned systems work.
This went from a napkin
sketch to full production
in less than 6 months.....

All manufacturers are
guilty of design issues
that hinder your "do it
yourself" attitude.
I'm in that group that
tries to defy government
driven design criteria.

 

[eldubb440]

it's usually the coils........ I pulled these out of my Durango 200K, ran like a top...... lmao