Again, you DON"T need the off-road set-up. They are NOT NECESSARY for street use.
Few issues I need help with
- Thread starter Ktmrida4life
- Start date
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
You may hate me for this but I already ordered them from Summit. Should ship tomorrow and have them later in the week. Hoping I get them before Friday or Saturday. Im no expert and dont know a ton about this stuff, but I dont see any reasons not to run them on the street and have searched all over the internet and have found a few people that are doing it with no issues. Everyone seems to agree they are an upgrade, and I think I remember them being in there when I originally rebuilt it 2-3 years ago..
Hard to tell for sure, but they look longer than the floats that arent spring loaded. Anyone know what the float height and drop should be for these? Ill try to get some good pictures for you as soon as I can colorododave, thanks for the help.
Hard to tell for sure, but they look longer than the floats that arent spring loaded. Anyone know what the float height and drop should be for these? Ill try to get some good pictures for you as soon as I can colorododave, thanks for the help.
KTM guy: You asked if you should get them and I said "you don't need them". That's all. If you just ordered the needles and seats, you'll be using your own floats. Float level remains the same: airhorn inverted with gasket in place, 7/16" between the gasket and the outer tip of the float. Float drop: airhorn right side up, gasket in place, +-1" from gasket to the outer tip of float. I come on here to try and help, not dictate...
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
OK cool.
I must be used to other forums. I have seen people try their best to dictate what others do over the internet. Very silly... I might be able to get pics of the current float needles/seats tomorrow for you. No guarantees though. Hoping these better seats/needles fix a few of my issues!!!
BTW, the oil I drained did have a gas smell to it! Not a good gas smell, but the same green crap that I found in the carb/tank.. smelled exactly like it.
Well, hopefully the system is purged of all that all fuel. BTW, anytime you have a vehicle that isn't going to get driven or used much in the case of lawn mowers, trimmers, etc. make sure to add Sta-bil or some other fuel conditioner to the tank and run the motor to get it dispersed through the fuel lines and carburetor. Gas goes bad so soon these days that it's cheap preventative maintenance. Look forward to the pictures.
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
Got the new floats in today, set the fuel drop to 1" +/- , and the fuel level to 7/16".
Airhorn/float bowl gasket ripped. Tried to put it back together anyway hoping it would be ok, car wont idle the slightest bit and you have to pump the gas several times to get it going. Making a hissing noise from under the hood. I let it knock off and put all the tools up..
Not sure how an air leak from the ripped gasket would affect it running but Im pretty sure thats where the hissing is coming from. Going to order a new gasket and put it on and see what happens then.
Really hoping these floats seal like they should and make a noticeable difference in how it runs/idles. Tonight it ran awful, hoping it was because of the ripped gasket.
Airhorn/float bowl gasket ripped. Tried to put it back together anyway hoping it would be ok, car wont idle the slightest bit and you have to pump the gas several times to get it going. Making a hissing noise from under the hood. I let it knock off and put all the tools up..
Not sure how an air leak from the ripped gasket would affect it running but Im pretty sure thats where the hissing is coming from. Going to order a new gasket and put it on and see what happens then.
Really hoping these floats seal like they should and make a noticeable difference in how it runs/idles. Tonight it ran awful, hoping it was because of the ripped gasket.
Did I miss the pictures? Sorry, KTM guy, can't help without seeing your set-up.
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
No you didnt. Lol
Ordered the new gaskets. I hate doing it but it makes more sense to order a set of 5.. from summit it was 19$ shipped. Dunno if I will get them Saturday or Monday.. but when I do, Ill get it apart and take pictures of me putting it back together and measuring the float level/drop.
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
I know those arent great pictures you get the idea. I tried to set both floats from 5/16-7/16, somewhere in that range. It is very tricky to get it dead on. Float drop was 1" give or take 1/16"
Car started right up and idled. Sounds a bit better. When you rev it up it doesnt backfire loudly like it used to. I heard a few small pops but you could just barely hear them over the car running.
Still has trouble starting back up after it sits for a bit and it was smoking again.
I guess the floats are working. Hard to say.
Looks like the float arm might be hitting the anti-slosh divider plate, maybe before completely shutting off the flow of fuel. After you shut the motor off and waiting a few minutes, very, very slowly open the throttle and look down into the intake manifold with a flashlight to see if the manifold floor is wet with gas. If it is, the floats are still not shutting off completely. This would cause the high consumption and hard hot starting.
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
Ill give that a try soon. Maybe Monday. Wheres this anti slosh plate you speak of? Is it in the carb body or the airhorn that Im holding that the floats are connected to?
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
Is the anti slosh plate the thing circled in white? One of them was actually loose, used a punch and a hammer to tighten up the rivet. Those are what Im using to adjust the float level.
Is that wrong? Something tells me it is. The manual shows the floats being parallel with the gasket surface and mine arent. I wish the manual had better instructions on setting something this important....
Roadbird
Well-Known Member
And make sure the float needle is not upside down.
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
Float needle is for sure not upside down. Ive messed with floats before so I know what goes where and how it works, but Im having trouble getting it adjusted correctly.
I dont think I understand how to correctly adjust the float level. Im almost positive the floats shouldnt be hitting those metal arms because that would keep the floats from sealing 100%.
How do I correctly adjust the float level? Where should I be bending, and how do I get my float parallel with the gasket surface?
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Ah crap I found a video of a guy adjusting the float level. I feel incredibly stupid *facepalm*.. I see how to do it now.
I will take the airhorn off, again (lol) and bend the anti slosh tabs back how they should be and adjust the float level correctly. Some people say 5/16", some say 7/16", might just shoot for the middle.. 3/8".
Roadbird
Well-Known Member
Normally bad smelling white smoke is indicative of burning oil and chances are it could be a blown head gasket or worst yet a cracked head. Either way you can pretty much determine where to start to check the problem, that's just my 2 cents. Possibly the new oil pump is working so good that there is great possibility it has greatly increased the oil pressure in the system to the point that a weakened area in the system around the head area has gave and thus the escape of the oil into the combustion chamber. My guess is a cracked head directly over the combustion chamber. I could be wrong and instead it could be around the valve area or last but not least the head gasket, which honestly with a problem like this is what I'd be hoping for because it's a lot cheaper to replace a head gasket than paying for a valve job or worst yet replacing a whole matching head. Might as well replace both and that in my book is more expensive but oh the outcome when it's fixed and done.
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
Oil pump is original! Fuel pump is new.
Im going to see how big of a difference getting the floats set correctly makes and go from there. Should be noticeable.
Replacing the valve stem seals doesnt look like too big of a job. Time consuming but nothing difficult. Parts are only 16$ (1$ per seal). Fill cylinder with air to hold up valve, remove valve cover, remove rocker arms, use valve compressor to remove spring/keepers, remove old seal, and then do it all in reverse. Ive built a few engines so Im very comfortable working on them.
Its just a matter of convincing my uncle to let me tear into it... which is NO easy task by any means! If he says yes, I will replace them and see how much it helps the smoke.. and if it doesnt help (or not much) Ill try to talk him into letting me pull the heads and replace the intake/head gaskets.
Yes, you were not adjusting the floats correctly and yes, you circled the part that appeared to be limiting the float travel up. Glad you found the video. Edelbrock has a great video on the AFBs, covering disassembly, adjusting, re-assembly and tuning. I highly recommend it. The main thing you should keep in mind when you are adjusting the floats is to NOT put any pressure on the needle. If you force the needle into the seat, it can groove the tip of the needle and then you have another problem. A couple of pairs of small needle nose pliers will help you get it right. The float level is 7/16", per the carburetor manufacturer. Get it right on the money and you won't have to wonder if it's causing you problems. Again, take several pictures after you adjust them and post them before you re-assemble it. PM me when you post them.
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
Man I saw this post after I already got it back together.
I unscrewed the floats and bent the anti-slosh tabs way back to keep them from interfering. They are actually touching the float seat body. I did make sure to hold behind the float with needle nose pliers while bending to avoid putting pressure on the float needle.. dont want to ruin my brand new shiny seats/needles. Set the float level to 5/16" according to the guy in the video. 7/16 seemed like it was excessive, the floats werent anywhere close to parallel with the body when I did that.
Car fired up immediately cold as usual. Didnt let it run real long, probably 45 seconds or so.. then shut it off, waited a few minutes, and tried to start it back up. Started up just like it does when its cold.
Ill start it back up tomorrow and listen to it a bit more.. didnt have much time today, but the idle sounded better. Not quite as rough and misfirey-sounding for lack of better words. I may take a video of it running, not sure how the audio will be cause its kinda loud.
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Oh, forgot to mention.. it still smokes when you rev it up. At idle it doesnt seem to, but when you rev it up it really pours it out.
If I was burning antifreeze, the level would be slowly going down right? Last time I checked, it was at the top.. and Ive never filled it. Pretty sure its oil...
Have you pulled the plugs? If you're burning oil to the point that it smokes that bad, the plugs should be oil soaked. Could be a stuck oil ring(s) since the motor sat for so long. If the plugs are oil soaked, squirt some Marvel Mystery oil in each cylinder and hand crank it a couple of revolutions. Then let it sit overnight. Crank it with no plugs and then install a fresh set. Sometimes that stuff performs miracles...
Ktmrida4life
Well-Known Member
I pulled the plugs a week or two ago. They were all black. I cant remember if they were oily/wet black, or just black. They are new from when I rebuilt the carb, but the floats havent been working the whole time either so.. they might be black because of that. Dunno, could be a stuck oil ring I guess. The car sat for a very long time but it was always started up at least once a month by my uncle, some month 1-2 maybe 3 times.
Really need to get working on an exhaust for this in the next few months. Trying to convince uncle to buy a MIG welder for us. I dont know how to weld, but Ive always wanted to learn and I found a decent starter welder for a good price. Lincoln handy mig for 290$ shipped brand new. Got a BIG gas bottle, really wish it was smaller though..
Leaning towards the valve stem seals since their rubber and original.. no way they can still be good. Im totally cool with the work involved to replace them, just gotta convince the uncle to let me do it.. which I doubt will happen.
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