Finacially upside down in this vehicle

[696pack]

This is not a B body but is a Mopar.

I have been a car guy for 40 years and was in the business for 30 years, so I typically MAKE money on my cars. However, here is an example of how anybody can end find themselves upside down in a vehicle.

A little over a year ago I bought a 1978 Little Red Express Truck. This truck was restored 11 years earlier. Meaning body off frame, rebuilt engine and trans., repro interior upholstery, new brakes, paint on a rust free body, etc. It was then driven 4000 miles and then garaged. It was started regularly and driven just enough to keep it from drying up.

The truck is nicely equipped with A/C, power steering and brakes, bucket seats and AM/FM. It had a 69 440 transplanted in it, which to me was a bonus as these trucks are not so highly valued that it make that much difference. I paid $12500. for the truck which was a good to fair deal at the time due to it's condition.

Now what the previous owner or myself did NOT know was that it had a bent driveshaft. I had been chasing this vibration from the time I purchased the truck but had not yet found the problem. This lead to a series of events that turned very ugly. I drove the truck at freeway speeds for (85 mph in AZ.) about 4 hours. I was pulling a very long steep hill when the trans began to slip. Of course I am in the middle of the desert and it is 115 degrees. As I am trying to get to the top of this hill when the engine begines to overheat. I finally get to a place I can safely pull off the freeway and it is HOT. It turns out that the out of balance driveshaft had torn the rear seal out of the trans and drained it of fluid. The overheated engine collapsed the pistons. So, rebuilt trans and engine, which of course leads to upgrades. Cam, head work, aluminum intake, new carb, MSD ignition, headers, mini starter, etc.

Prior to all of this I had purchased a 1977 4 X 4 donor truck to convert the LRT to 4 wheel drive. So I am already commited to this project. I seldom do any of my own heavy work on vehicles anymore as I find my time spent better elsewhere. It is expensive doing all of this, and frankly hard to find anyone that is interested in doing this kind of work on these old vehicles these days.

So, after buying the larger tires now that it is a 4 X 4, I have over $31,000. in this truck. So much for my original GOOD DEAL.

The only saving grace is that I will sell this truck to my new business and deppreciate it out through taxes to recover from my misfortune.

It can happen to anyone and just an example of how quickly you can get buried in a vehicle.

 

[Pastortom1]

The same thing happened to me with my Ferd tow vehicle..........

I paid 13K with only 44K miles on it, but the computer system and fuel delivery system were both crap..........The truck gave me service, but ate me alive in repair labor costs........

I ended up swapping it for a 1956 Ford F-100........needs a lot of attention on the body, but it has a new original running gear and brakes with a solid frame. I hope I can recoup my losses and then some with the little gem.

(To my place for a little spongecake uund a little 'vine, and ve'll have zis one looking like noooooooo...........I hope). :grin:

 

[69 Runner]

These things happen. This Duster I just bought (over the internet) is kinda like that. There's a lot of things the P.O. didn't bother to tell me about. Nothing major, but enough minor things still adds up to a lot of money.

The saving grace is I didn't pay much for it. So even with (basically) rebuilding all the suspension, replacing the wheels and tires, steering wheel, fuel pump, (and soon to be) radiator, fan, and shroud, I think I still have less in it than it would sell for on ebay. But with ebay, you never know what's gonna happen.

So don't worry about it. What you have in it only matters if you want to get rid of it. But you already know that.

 

[torredcuda]

The rebiuld on the engine and trans were unexpected but you put a lot of money into modifying a vehicle that was never worth a ton of money.

 

[mrmopar1966]

my mom had the same problem with a '68 pontiac tempest 4dr. story goes like this mom not being too sharp with how to have a car checked out..Depened on my uncle her brother..He looked it over said it was o.k. mind you also this car was in the back row of a used car lot...after the car was bought for more money than I'd given for it...It would breakdown/dropdead in the middle of the street was towed to (MONKEY WARDS)more times than it was on the road and my uncle and cousin supposedly rebuilt the engine once but didn't get it right as it kept bending pushrods...By this point she was into this car quite a bit and owed (MONKEY WARDS)over 4 thousand dollars the car never did run right and in the end she gave the car away to a friend of hers that wanted it...Even though it wasn't my money (I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!!!)

 

[696pack]

The rebiuld on the engine and trans were unexpected but you put a lot of money into modifying a vehicle that was never worth a ton of money.

Below are some pictures of the truck.

The only modifications that I did to the vehicle was the 4 X 4 conversion. Yes that part was expensive just from a labor standpoint as I only had $250.00 in the 4 X 4 donor truck. As stated above, the REAL problem with this truck that caused all the unexpected cost was due to the driveshaft.

Yes, an LRT never came in 4 X 4 and to some that is taboo, but there is always someone out there (just like me) that will find it desirable and will pay for it simply because if you WANT one it is better to buy one done than go through the aggrivation of building one, but certainly won't be willing to pay for the added cost that was simply my mis-fortune.

I converted the truck to 4 X 4 because I am thinning my herd of cars and "consolidating" vehicles. Until I sold my Jeep I had 7 vehicles insured. I have another truck (Chevy) that I am now going to sell also. So when it is gone I will still have a pretty cool old truck to use as a "truck" and it will replace my Jeep when I want to go 4 wheeling in the sand. I am not really CONCERNED about how much money I have in the LRT as I have no intentions of selling it and will keep and enjoy it for a looooong time. I am just WHINING.:tongueflap:

LRTs like mine were selling in the $20K range at B-J last year so even with the cost of the 4 X 4 conversion I still would have been OK. Now, before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I am more than aware of what the prices are at B-J compared to typical nationwide sales. In fact, you can bet that THEIR prices will be down signifigantly this coming year. OTOH, B-J is no place for an LRT in the first place. The prices THAT kind of car/truck bring at B-J are much closer to real world prices and then both the seller and buyer have to pay the fees.

 

[696pack]

The same thing happened to me with my Ferd tow vehicle..........

I paid 13K with only 44K miles on it, but the computer system and fuel delivery system were both crap..........The truck gave me service, but ate me alive in repair labor costs........

I ended up swapping it for a 1956 Ford F-100........needs a lot of attention on the body, but it has a new original running gear and brakes with a solid frame. I hope I can recoup my losses and then some with the little gem.

(To my place for a little spongecake uund a little 'vine, and ve'll have zis one looking like noooooooo...........I hope). :grin:

If that 56 works for what you need a truck for then you are better off with it than a late model in the long run. The 56 has only one way to go with regards to value PLUS you will certainly get a lot more thumbs up with it then with a run of the mill late model. You certainly won't "meet yourself" on the road everyday either.:grin:

 

[69 Runner]

Looks good Darryl

 

[dodgechargerfan]

If I don't laugh, I'd be crying all the time.

I've been upside down on my project for so long, I'm convinced that everyone else is standing on their heads.

I bought my 69 Charger on eBay - relatively sight unseen ( I got a lot of pictures and talked a lot with the seller)
Overall, I think I got a great deal - to start with. With about 80% of the selling price going towards the pile of parts with receipts that came with the car, that put the actual cost of the car at around 1000. Not to bad, really.

Then I got digging in to it and found that some of the frame repairs really weren't going to make it. It was beyond my toolbox to fix.

So, I found someone who had done some amazing resto work and talked to a few people that knew him and brought the car to him for the frame repairs and the major metal work. $11K plus parts later, I got my shell back in primer. The parts put in to it included quarter skins, trunk floor, front floor pans, frame caps on the rears and one front, rear valance and corner caps, and the rear cross member.

The plan was to build my own Popeye arms doing the final body work including blocking it out, then hand it over to a shop for final finish work and paint.

That process stalled and I'm glad it did. While it sat, some cracks developed in the tail light panel and in the driver's side rocker panel. Digging into that, I found foil tape under filler. Under the foil tape I found rust holes and in some places, tacked-in filler panels - but not completely filling in the hole - just enough to hold the tape and filler.

Looking at that, I wondered what shortcuts might be found in the frame work.

So, I shipped it off again and this time it's getting done right.
So many more problems were found simply because this shop took the time to look.
They found the frame rails covered in fibre glass filler and when they remove that, daylight could be seen from one side of the frame rail to the other - so that's holes big enough on both sides and lined up to let light shine through. Between that and the rust found inside the rocker panels (that the first guy didn't touch), this car would have folded had I gotten it on the road.

So, now that it's getting done right, the bills are racking up again. A lot of the same parts are being replaced again. This time, I'm avoiding the frame caps and got good used stuff or decent repops.

So, with just the parts for the frame and body, plus shop supplies and labour, I'm into this thing for at least $25K.

and this is what it looks like right now.

Still along way to go and 95% of the components that need to go back on the car need to be restored and/or replaced.

The car?
Oh, it's a base model Charger. not an R/T, or an SE, or a HEMI, or anything else...

At best, it's got a weird list of options for a base model Charger.

originally a 383, it came to me with a '69 440 recently rebuilt
A/C
Power Front Discs
Power Windows
AM/FM
6-way driver's seat
woodgrain steering wheel
woodgrain inserts for dash and centre console
F8 green with a white gut and green vinyl top
Road wheels (Magnums)
A01 Light Package
and a few other things that don't jump to mind right now.

In short, it's almost like someone looked at the SE option list and checked them all of except for one or two things - weird.


That, I think, is seriously upside down.

I've tried to walk away from it a few times. Before this last phase started, I was seriously thinking about cutting it up into pieces and selling it off that way. I'd keep the component parts that I'd taken off in case I needed them for whatever I managed to dig up for a replacement project car. I talked myself out of that and started ordering parts.

A lot of pictures and details can be seen here:
http://niagaramopars.com/b2/

I do need to start adding more to that blog. It's a bit behind.

 

[beeguy]

There are a lot more people upside down in their cars than would like to admit it, the way the values have dropped way more than even know it.

In the long run I think even what looks bad today will be ok in the future, just like the stock market you should be fine if you've got time. at least that's what I tell myself.

One thing I see all the time is you rust belt guys buying cars that would scare me to death, here on the west coast if I see a car than needs anything more than lower rear patch panels I run away screaming like my teeth are on fire. I have to wonder if many people who are upside down would be if they had spent the extra bucks to buy a solid car and ship it in the first place. my hat is off to you guys who can save the rust buckets but the expense and work just don't seem to make financial sense to me.

 

[AdamR]

Sounds like you needed to have a "Plan", LOL

 

[696pack]

dodgechargerfan
All I can say is WOW and I feel sorry for you. You just blantantly got screwed on your body work the first time. That guy needs to be paid a late night visit as he is coming out the back door of his shop for a little repayment in kind.

beeguy
"There are a lot more people upside down in their cars than would like to admit it"

That is for sure. It kind of like fishin' stories.

I am from the rust belt originally. Back in 2000 I bought a two owner original drivetrain 1968 Hemi Charger R/T from Penn. Fortunately, it had been garaged since it was ten years old. Of course it still needed quarters but that was all. With a car that they only built 475 of, you have to buy them where you find them. I would never do it again, as it seems that you can always buy a done car for less then buying a project and restoring it. Living in AZ. everyone thinks that there should be a bunch of rust free Mopars here. The reality is that back when these cars were new, Phoenix was only about 100K people and it is/was the largest city in AZ. so there just weren't that many to begin with. A rust free body is a VERY BIG PLUS as the metal work prices are cost prohibitive these days.

AdamR
Well, I HAD a plan. My plan WAS to buy it and drive it. Unfortunately the truck didn't see it that way. But I am sure OHD has the correct PLAN for me. LOL!!!