finally was able to buy a house

[Satellite65]

In good condition the house would appraise for approximately 65k. But it needs carpet, paint, and has a bunch of electrical issues(old wiring) as well as some many smaller things that need some attention.

An average house in the middle Tennessee area usually runs between 50-120k. so even for the area I got a steal!!!

Carpet, paint and crap like that can wait but don't let the electrical stuff go too long. House fires are nasty and we don't want to hear any bad news so take care of that **** asap, ok?

 

[brandon64]

Carpet, paint and crap like that can wait but don't let the electrical stuff go too long. House fires are nasty and we don't want to hear any bad news so take care of that **** asap, ok?

I know electrical fairly well, but one thing that has me puzzled is the bathroom and spare bedroom show 32 volts at the switch? and nothing at the lights or sockets? Basement showed 11 volts? I disconnected the power in to the basement that showed 11 volts and ran a hot wire and ground from a circuit that was working (via extension cord), and got the basement working. All circuits show 120 off the breaker. not sure what to do other than run all new wires?

 

[detmatt1]

Plenty of room on that lot for that 40 X 60 next year!!!

 

[Meep-Meep]

Plenty of room on that lot for that 40 X 60 next year!!!

There you go thinking again Matt!

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

I know electrical fairly well, but one thing that has me puzzled is the bathroom and spare bedroom show 32 volts at the switch? and nothing at the lights or sockets? Basement showed 11 volts? I disconnected the power in to the basement that showed 11 volts and ran a hot wire and ground from a circuit that was working (via extension cord), and got the basement working. All circuits show 120 off the breaker. not sure what to do other than run all new wires?

Sounds like you have an open nuetral in the ckt. somewhere.How are you reading the voltage, to ground( bare wire or box) or the nuetral(white wire)?If you remove all the bulbs from the light fixtures and unplug everything does it change your voltage reading?If your house has old BX (armored cable) and the metal has rust on it, you will be wise to plan on rewiring. I don't know what you do professionally, but if it isn't electrical work get some professional help. Trade off some work doing what you do or get extra hours to pay for the wiring. You will come out ahead in the long run with a safe house you can sleep soundly in w/o the worry of an electrical fire.

 

[brandon64]

Sounds like you have an open nuetral in the ckt. somewhere.How are you reading the voltage, to ground( bare wire or box) or the nuetral(white wire)?If you remove all the bulbs from the light fixtures and unplug everything does it change your voltage reading?If your house has old BX (armored cable) and the metal has rust on it, you will be wise to plan on rewiring. I don't know what you do professionally, but if it isn't electrical work get some professional help. Trade off some work doing what you do or get extra hours to pay for the wiring. You will come out ahead in the long run with a safe house you can sleep soundly in w/o the worry of an electrical fire.

The whole house is only 2 wire. I was reading voltage from wire to wire. It does not change voltage weather there are bulbs in or not. I am assuming it is BX, it is the wire with a cloth like covering, I have seen no signs of rust. I am professorially a mechanic and am ASE certified in electrical, but that is DC, AC is a bit different. My father in-law is a maintenance man and has been for many years and knows AC pretty well, but the 32 volts confused him as well. I believe between me and him we have enough sense to fix it ourselves with out burning the place down. It sounds like your pretty familiar with AC electrical, any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[696pack]

Congrates!!

For you guys that think it is cheap (yes it is) there are many places in the USA that you csan still find deals like this. Parts of Illinois, Tenn., Missouri, Miss., Iowa, etc. It is generally in rural areas where ther are few jobs and the ones that are available are low paying.

These are actually great places to retire to when you sell you expensive home in an urban area where you made a good living for years.

 

[Satellite65]

I know electrical fairly well, but one thing that has me puzzled is the bathroom and spare bedroom show 32 volts at the switch? and nothing at the lights or sockets? Basement showed 11 volts? I disconnected the power in to the basement that showed 11 volts and ran a hot wire and ground from a circuit that was working (via extension cord), and got the basement working. All circuits show 120 off the breaker. not sure what to do other than run all new wires?

Run all new wires and install all new switches and outlets. You'll rip hair out of your head trying to straighten that mess out.

Sounds like you have an open nuetral in the ckt. somewhere.How are you reading the voltage, to ground( bare wire or box) or the nuetral(white wire)?If you remove all the bulbs from the light fixtures and unplug everything does it change your voltage reading?If your house has old BX (armored cable) and the metal has rust on it, you will be wise to plan on rewiring. I don't know what you do professionally, but if it isn't electrical work get some professional help. Trade off some work doing what you do or get extra hours to pay for the wiring. You will come out ahead in the long run with a safe house you can sleep soundly in w/o the worry of an electrical fire.

I agree, sounds like grounding/neutral issues. The cloth covered wire your refering to is the old style Romex, usually two wire, hot and neutral with no ground. Years ago they used to run what was called a chaser ground around the house. Basically just a run of uninsulated copper wire that daisy-chained around the whole house to provide a path to ground. That's how my house was wired originally. It's all gone now, that was my first order of business too as my house was an electrical nightmare similar to yours, maybe not quite as bad based on what you're describing. At least my **** worked somewhat!!!

The new Romex is plastic covered and has a ground wire in it already as well as the insulated black and white, hot and neutral wires. BX is the wire that's inside a spiral wound metal jacket, still code here in NYC due to the fact that rats have a tendancy to chew through the plastic stuff but that may change soon if it hasn't already.

One thing I think warrants mentioning, look at your breaker panel. If it was made by a company called Federal Pacific GET RID OF IT!!!! Those were known for burning houses down to the ground due to improper testing proceedures and breakers that wouldn't trip when they were supposed to. The company lost their U.L. licensing sometime in the early '80s if I'm correct.

Unfortunately, you're probably going to have to do what I did and tear the whole place apart to re-wire it all but it'll be worth it. You can stuff the walls with new insulation while you're at it. Take your time and do it correctly.

When was the house built? Sounds like a mid '50s-early '60s job to me.

 

[Finallygotmine]

Congrats, man. nothing like having your own place. ownership is a beautiful thing.

 

[67 B-body]

My house had the cloth covered wire as you have described it too! I removed most of it and replaced with new Romex. I also removed the small fuse box "Four fuses" for the entire house! It's just how they did things back then...... I put in a new breaker panel during the upgrade and put anything that had the few pieces of older wire on a 10amp breaker "basement lights and two outlets in living room".... The new stuff got 15amp breakers, and each room has its own circuit. I'll be finishing mine up this winter when I can't be outside.

 

[Superfreak]

42 grand..........no **** you got a steal. I friggen wish. Can you imagine........the economy would be really flying if everyone could by a house with that much land for that price. Congrats. Now I will go cry in my glass of wine over my mortgage payment which would pay your house off in 14 1/2 months.

 

[brandon64]

Run all new wires and install all new switches and outlets. You'll rip hair out of your head trying to straighten that mess out.



I agree, sounds like grounding/neutral issues. The cloth covered wire your refering to is the old style Romex, usually two wire, hot and neutral with no ground. Years ago they used to run what was called a chaser ground around the house. Basically just a run of uninsulated copper wire that daisy-chained around the whole house to provide a path to ground. That's how my house was wired originally. It's all gone now, that was my first order of business too as my house was an electrical nightmare similar to yours, maybe not quite as bad based on what you're describing. At least my **** worked somewhat!!!

The new Romex is plastic covered and has a ground wire in it already as well as the insulated black and white, hot and neutral wires. BX is the wire that's inside a spiral wound metal jacket, still code here in NYC due to the fact that rats have a tendancy to chew through the plastic stuff but that may change soon if it hasn't already.

One thing I think warrants mentioning, look at your breaker panel. If it was made by a company called Federal Pacific GET RID OF IT!!!! Those were known for burning houses down to the ground due to improper testing proceedures and breakers that wouldn't trip when they were supposed to. The company lost their U.L. licensing sometime in the early '80s if I'm correct.

Unfortunately, you're probably going to have to do what I did and tear the whole place apart to re-wire it all but it'll be worth it. You can stuff the walls with new insulation while you're at it. Take your time and do it correctly.

When was the house built? Sounds like a mid '50s-early '60s job to me.

Thanks for the tips, and you called it. The house was built in 59'

 

[68sportsatelliteragtop]

The whole house is only 2 wire. I was reading voltage from wire to wire. It does not change voltage weather there are bulbs in or not. I am assuming it is BX, it is the wire with a cloth like covering, I have seen no signs of rust. I am professorially a mechanic and am ASE certified in electrical, but that is DC, AC is a bit different. My father in-law is a maintenance man and has been for many years and knows AC pretty well, but the 32 volts confused him as well. I believe between me and him we have enough sense to fix it ourselves with out burning the place down. It sounds like your pretty familiar with AC electrical, any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like your best bet is to rewire. Since your house is a rancher, if the attic has no floor in it you can rewire the majority from above without too much tearing the house apart.If you need to remove the drywall to insulate then that would be the way to go. I would suggest you get a book on basic wiring to help you along with outlet spacing, wire sizing, SMOKE DETECTOR placement, etc. Check your main service for size and condition. You will want to add circuits in your basement/shop so if you need to replace an older box, get a service increase while you are at it, 200 amp minimum, based on your requirements and future plans. Around here we require permits for this type of work that can only be issued to licensed contractors, some areas have homeowner permits. Either way if permits are required for the service, get that taken care of first before you start to remodel. If you rewire first w/o permits you could have trouble getting your power company to hook up the upgraded service.If you are lucky enough to be in an area that doesn't require permits, then between you and your father-in-law, and a little research, you should be able to fight it. If you have any questions, take some pics and PM me I will answer what I can. Troubleshooting problems are a hands on type of thing.BTW I have been in the trade since 1977, had my own business for 20 years and have been an inspector for the last 6. I have seen some unbelievably bad installations, usually from the "profesional" types who were in way over their head. People with little or no mechanical ability. As I said earlier, you guys should be up to it. Good luck and take your time with it, there are no good shortcuts when it comes to electricity!

 

[67 B-body]

Sounds like your best bet is to rewire. Since your house is a rancher, if the attic has no floor in it you can rewire the majority from above without too much tearing the house apart.If you need to remove the drywall to insulate then that would be the way to go. I would suggest you get a book on basic wiring to help you along with outlet spacing, wire sizing, SMOKE DETECTOR placement, etc. Check your main service for size and condition. You will want to add circuits in your basement/shop so if you need to replace an older box, get a service increase while you are at it, 200 amp minimum, based on your requirements and future plans. Around here we require permits for this type of work that can only be issued to licensed contractors, some areas have homeowner permits. Either way if permits are required for the service, get that taken care of first before you start to remodel. If you rewire first w/o permits you could have trouble getting your power company to hook up the upgraded service.If you are lucky enough to be in an area that doesn't require permits, then between you and your father-in-law, and a little research, you should be able to fight it. If you have any questions, take some pics and PM me I will answer what I can. Troubleshooting problems are a hands on type of thing.BTW I have been in the trade since 1977, had my own business for 20 years and have been an inspector for the last 6. I have seen some unbelievably bad installations, usually from the "profesional" types who were in way over their head. People with little or no mechanical ability. As I said earlier, you guys should be up to it. Good luck and take your time with it, there are no good shortcuts when it comes to electricity!

Good advice, but make sure your service coming in is capable of 200amps before just putting it in! Some power companies will provide the labor but not the up sized cable itself. This was the case at my house..... So just do your research and plan everything out well. A basic drawing of what you have plans for can be a help as well. Include outlet locations, wire pulls, 4X4 junction boxes, any structure upgrades for things such as ceiling fans or heavy hanging lights.
As mentioned, it can be much easier running wire in the attic space and down to your outlets in the walls.
I dont know what years fire stops were put inside of walls, but they can be a pain in the *** too when trying to run wire down!
Good luck!

 

[Satellite65]

Good advice, but make sure your service coming in is capable of 200amps before just putting it in! Some power companies will provide the labor but not the up sized cable itself. This was the case at my house..... So just do your research and plan everything out well. A basic drawing of what you have plans for can be a help as well. Include outlet locations, wire pulls, 4X4 junction boxes, any structure upgrades for things such as ceiling fans or heavy hanging lights.
As mentioned, it can be much easier running wire in the attic space and down to your outlets in the walls.
I dont know what years fire stops were put inside of walls, but they can be a pain in the *** too when trying to run wire down!
Good luck!

Most utility companies will only be more than happy to provide you with the means to use even MORE electricity.

200 amp should be plenty. I have a swimming pool and two 3 ton a/c units and I'm noware near maxed out.

 

[scotts74birds]

I've been in the electrical trade since '89 in commercial, residential and industrial. Good advice guys! I've found that most homes need more breaker spaces rather than larger services. This is because all of the required and dedicated circuits with very little load on them. Alot of folks dont realize that 100 amp service has 100 amps available PER PHASE! For a total of 200amps available! Sorry to whore the thread...nice house dude!

 

[brandon64]

I got the upsairs lights fixed yesterday. It turns out there was a broke wire due to a loose sealing fan. So I ran a new stretch of wire and attached the fan better.

Now for my next task, I was going to try and wire up my welder but it has 4 wires on the plug, I was told that means that it is 3 phase. I have no idea how to wire it up. I looked on google and I read somewhere that each phase has to be hooked up in a certain order.

Can I just run a hot wire off of three different breakers, or is it more complicated then that?

Again, thanks for all of the input.

 

[scotts74birds]

Double-check the data-plate on your welder. Unless it came out of a factory, it should say single-phase, or 1-phase on the plate. Some newer units can have 4 wires. 2 for the 240 volt power, 1 neutral [for any 120 volt components], and 1 ground. Let me know what you have. Scott

 

[brandon64]

The welder did not come out of a factory but it is a hoss of a welder and is 3 phase, on the data plate it reads 3 phase with line in volts being 230/460/575. It's an old Hobart Fabstar 4030 model. It was the welder at my old work that ended up closing its doors, I got it for next to nothing, and it's an excellent welder.

 

[scotts74birds]

The bad news is that you CANT hook it up without using a 3 phase converter. And they can be pricey! A few hundred dollars at least! You might think about Craigslisting your unit, and use the money to buy a 240v, single phase unit. That one looks a little big for home and hot rod use anyways. Unless you do heavy welding on the side, a machine that handles up to 1/4" is the most you need as a hot rodder. The larger machines have trouble "dialing-in" for the thinner metals we use on most cars.