For those with kids learning to drive

[Budnicks]

All my kids (niece & nephew too) were on Honda Odysee's,
go-carts, mini-bikes & motorcycles
years before turning 15 to get a learner permit, they still had drivers-ed
all just like I did/was...

My 1st real car driving lesson was 10 years old
in a Park & Shop empty (mostly) shopping center parking-lot
my stepdad Bob's hotrod 53 F100 352fe t-10 4-speed

I had driven a go-cart & mini-bike prior, I think it helps tremendously...

 

[HawkRod]

"I would have changed lanes way before I got close enough to follow you" yes, that was the main point.

However, the looking over the shoulder I strongly disagree with, and I cringe when I see a nearby driver turn around in traffic at speed:
1. It takes your eyes off the road, and during that second?, you have traveled effectively blind at 60 mph nearly 66 ft
2. It tells me a driver does not have confidence of their current situational awareness by likely not giving adequate attention to their mirrors.
3. It tells me they may not have their mirrors properly adjusted
4. It might also tell me the driver does not have confidence of what is visible in the reflected mirrors, or cannot process what they are seeing.
5, When you are driving a big rig, looking over your shoulder is mostly rather useless
6. Not that this applies well here, but you seldom see race drivers turn there heads in competition at speed

This is shared in all due respect to your dad, I had one too. Mine was big on a driver knowing exactly what space the driven car occupied on the road, as the difference between a close call and an accident could be less than an inch. He would place a dime on the vacant road, and tell me to stop on it. The "game" my family played when going out to dinner was how straight and even you could park in a spot without backing up,

First, I appreciate an intelligent discussion and not name calling. I have no issue with you disagreeing with me and generating conversation!

I will say that I disagree with NOT looking at your blind spot (and it's a fraction of a second too). There is a reason they call it a blind spot - even with properly adjusted mirrors there is an area you cannot see with your mirrors (big trucks have additional mirrors for this). Also, try driving an old car with no right hand mirror. I agree that with situational awareness you should know - and 99.9% of the time I do. But it can also get harder with very dense and rapid traffic. On a rural highway in Montana? Piece of cake. On a beltway around New York city? Not so much. In my view, the look over your shoulder to check your blind spot is a fraction of a second check that adds extra safety.

For driver education, we had soda (pop) cans half filled with water. We would slalom through them, but the more interesting thing was to crush them with various tires. Right front and left front was the first level. Crushing them with the back tires (without the fronts touching the cans) help teach the track of the rear tires in turns. Another favorite was "reversi day". There was an abandoned parking lot with some driveways/ roads. With reversi day, the car had to drive around in reverse, following lanes, stopping at intersections, turning, parking, etc. Fun stuff!

 

[YY1]

Twice, I have been given rounds of applause from other motorists for my abilities to avoid collisions caused by the carelessness of others.

On one occasion, I had to avoid a car twice, that was "motioned out" by another driver that did not bother to look beyond stopped traffic in the lane closest to them. I saw what was going on (it was the worst thing that either of those drivers could have done) but it was too late to stop.
The car pulled directly into my path as I slowed from 50 MPH. I swerved into the shoulder, but the other driver "tried to get out of my way" by swerving into the shoulder (which again, was the worst thing they could have done), and I had to swerve right again, taking out a small PVC brace for a young tree. I had already calculated in my mind that hitting the brace was way less damage potential than any other move.

When I stopped, I got out, looked at the bumper (no damage), the tree (seemed OK), and shook my head at the other driver.
About five other motorists that had watched everything unfold, rolled down their windows and clapped.

 

[YY1]

Another time, I was heading out of town on a 2 lane road as the flow of traffic speed increased from about 60 to 70-75.
A blue mustang passed me at a fairly high rate of speed, and one driveway later....stopped.
I had just picked up my cup of hot coffee and was about to take a drink.
I jammed the brake, knowing I was not able to stop in time, and checked the mirror before swerving to the right shoulder.
NOPE, a car behind me was already swerving and actually starting to pass me sliding through the grass.
I saw oncoming traffic and judged the speed. It would be close, but I could make it across.
I also had to plan for the ditch angle and avoid a culvert.
I'll never forget the look on the drivers face as I passed and barely dug into the ditch, using the grass to start a turn.
Everyone was finally stopped and catching their breath...
...except the person that had stopped in front of the line of cars moving at 70 MPH.
They had made the turn and were closing their gate, ignoring the commotion they had caused.

Both the other divers made statements to the tune of "I don't know how you didn't hit any of us".
...and the driver of the oncoming car said "I saw that you were holding a cup of coffee in one hand".

 

[j-c-c-62]

First, I appreciate an intelligent discussion and not name calling. I have no issue with you disagreeing with me and generating conversation!

I will say that I disagree with NOT looking at your blind spot (and it's a fraction of a second too). There is a reason they call it a blind spot - even with properly adjusted mirrors there is an area you cannot see with your mirrors (big trucks have additional mirrors for this). Also, try driving an old car with no right hand mirror. I agree that with situational awareness you should know - and 99.9% of the time I do. But it can also get harder with very dense and rapid traffic. On a rural highway in Montana? Piece of cake. On a beltway around New York city? Not so much. In my view, the look over your shoulder to check your blind spot is a fraction of a second check that adds extra safety.

For driver education, we had soda (pop) cans half filled with water. We would slalom through them, but the more interesting thing was to crush them with various tires. Right front and left front was the first level. Crushing them with the back tires (without the fronts touching the cans) help teach the track of the rear tires in turns. Another favorite was "reversi day". There was an abandoned parking lot with some driveways/ roads. With reversi day, the car had to drive around in reverse, following lanes, stopping at intersections, turning, parking, etc. Fun stuff!

How about this, we install a video camera in the back seat that has a reviewable time stamp to the second. and record head movements in traffic and head turning and then get a better agreed basis for time taken looking over one's shoulder? The fact remains, whatever the time, 15/16's of a second or less, it's distance covered if the vehicle is moving. The truck reference I made was only to make the point its very safe and common to safely drive without looking over one's shoulder. This also applies imo, to 100% of any car built in the last 20? years.
My contention, to repeat myself, whatever extra safety over the shoulder provides at the moment, is likely offset by the higher risk of not looking where one is going, and unnecessarily if one utilized and trusted their mirrors more often and efficiently. Driving a car with inadequate mirrors is a choice.

In 1968 I installed a "wink" mirror. I still install and use them on cars from that era that can benefit from better rear vision.

Be warned however, passengers get rather anxious when changing lanes and they never see the driver turn their head.

I have great faith any unintelligent discussions on my part will be promptly brought to my attention, Don't let me down.

 

[Skytrooper]

I had both of mine go through the SCCA Street Survivor school. Well, worth it just for all they learned about vehicle handling. They both had done driver’s education in high school, but it was sorely lacking in what it taught.

 

[WileE]

New Jersey has the worst reckless drivers, New York has the dumbest drivers.

 

[68BabyBlue]

First, I appreciate an intelligent discussion and not name calling. I have no issue with you disagreeing with me and generating conversation!

I will say that I disagree with NOT looking at your blind spot (and it's a fraction of a second too). There is a reason they call it a blind spot - even with properly adjusted mirrors there is an area you cannot see with your mirrors (big trucks have additional mirrors for this). Also, try driving an old car with no right hand mirror. I agree that with situational awareness you should know - and 99.9% of the time I do. But it can also get harder with very dense and rapid traffic. On a rural highway in Montana? Piece of cake. On a beltway around New York city? Not so much. In my view, the look over your shoulder to check your blind spot is a fraction of a second check that adds extra safety.

For driver education, we had soda (pop) cans half filled with water. We would slalom through them, but the more interesting thing was to crush them with various tires. Right front and left front was the first level. Crushing them with the back tires (without the fronts touching the cans) help teach the track of the rear tires in turns. Another favorite was "reversi day". There was an abandoned parking lot with some driveways/ roads. With reversi day, the car had to drive around in reverse, following lanes, stopping at intersections, turning, parking, etc. Fun stuff!

I've found it extremely ironic that the Lexus IS250 my wife drives has multiple blind spots which didn't exist in my Peterbilt 379, with its strategically placed mirrors. She's had numerous near misses when I've been a passenger - main culprit is a windshield pillar that will easily hide a pedestrian or a vehicle approaching from the right at an intersection. Similar situation with traffic in the passing lane overtaking, because of a thick rear roof pillar. When driving the Pete, I could cover everything with the mirrors, but I still took second glances to allow for overtaking traffic to come into view. Situation unique to big trucks is cars darting out from behind the trailer, a split second after I checked all mirrors.

 

[6PKRTSE]

All my kids and now grand kids all grew up with quads, go carts, power wheels Jeeps etc to learn there motor skills and being responsible on. However, 16 is just to young for a driver license. I was 16 once and we all did crazy stupid things back then but luckily survived and didn't harm anyone else.

I think children should have to graduate high school and present their diploma in order to take driver's training to get their drivers license. One gives them incentive to actually do something in school and learn something and two, maybe a little more grown up and street smarts by then.

 

[YY1]

This is one reason why I add the factory pass side mirror to all my classic cars.

True, you can't see "everything", but positioned correctly, you can see that "something" is or is not in that somewhat large blind spot.

 

[68BabyBlue]

This is one reason why I add the factory pass side mirror to all my classic cars.

True, you can't see "everything", but positioned correctly, you can see that "something" is or is not in that somewhat large blind spot.

Original owner of my '69 GTX ordered the car with a passenger side mirror. He was a WWII fighter pilot in an earlier life.

 

[6PKRTSE]

I have passenger mirrors on 3 of my classic cars. They all came with them factory. I do use them regularly and they help.

 

[j-c-c-62]

However, learning something and getting a diploma are two different things in my book.

Parents are in the best position to inspire the desire to learn.

And most of us today are a bit wiser, because we survived the stupid things we all did as kids.

 

[j-c-c-62]

Original owner of my '69 GTX ordered the car with a passenger side mirror. He was a WWII fighter pilot in an earlier life.

It's not so much IMO that one be able to "see everything". it's just almost impossible for anything to get into a blind spot without first being seen, if one is paying attention.

 

[j-c-c-62]

There were two driving skills at Skip Barber Driving school that I thought excelled in improving the kids on road driving.
The wet skid pad with a car with variable traction settings by using effectively 4 extra hyd training wheels to learn low speed skid control, and a straight line quick reaction car control exercise, where the car was driven at speed towards 3 coned lined adjacent lanes, and overhead there were three traffic lights, and lights would go from green to red randomly, and the students car would have to safely get to the one remaining green lane, and not hit any cones, every time the speed increased slightly.

 

[dadsbee]

Wife's Challenger has to be the worst thing I've ever tried to see out of. I guess she's got it figured out though... zero scratches in almost 7 years and it's her Winter car!

 

[HawkRod]

How about this, we install a video camera in the back seat that has a reviewable time stamp to the second. and record head movements in traffic and head turning and then get a better agreed basis for time taken looking over one's shoulder? The fact remains, whatever the time, 15/16's of a second or less, it's distance covered if the vehicle is moving. The truck reference I made was only to make the point its very safe and common to safely drive without looking over one's shoulder. This also applies imo, to 100% of any car built in the last 20? years.
My contention, to repeat myself, whatever extra safety over the shoulder provides at the moment, is likely offset by the higher risk of not looking where one is going, and unnecessarily if one utilized and trusted their mirrors more often and efficiently. Driving a car with inadequate mirrors is a choice.

In 1968 I installed a "wink" mirror. I still install and use them on cars from that era that can benefit from better rear vision.

Be warned however, passengers get rather anxious when changing lanes and they never see the driver turn their head.

I have great faith any unintelligent discussions on my part will be promptly brought to my attention, Don't let me down.

Well, we will agree to disagree. Either way, I hope we both continue to have many safe miles on the road

I've found it extremely ironic that the Lexus IS250 my wife drives has multiple blind spots which didn't exist in my Peterbilt 379, with its strategically placed mirrors. She's had numerous near misses when I've been a passenger - main culprit is a windshield pillar that will easily hide a pedestrian or a vehicle approaching from the right at an intersection. Similar situation with traffic in the passing lane overtaking, because of a thick rear roof pillar. When driving the Pete, I could cover everything with the mirrors, but I still took second glances to allow for overtaking traffic to come into view. Situation unique to big trucks is cars darting out from behind the trailer, a split second after I checked all mirrors.

Wife's Challenger has to be the worst thing I've ever tried to see out of. I guess she's got it figured out though... zero scratches in almost 7 years and it's her Winter car!

I agree that the new cars are worse from a visibility perspective. On all the classics* I feel like I can see out of them really well, and can see rearwards really well too. Nowadays the larger pillars and headrests, belt lines, body styles, etc. make looking backwards much, much harder.

* OK. There is a classic where it is hard to tell where the front of the car ends. The 69 Corvette has a really long nose - much longer than it looks, so it is not easy to see where it ends - you just have to learn where it is.

 

[68BabyBlue]

There were two driving skills at Skip Barber Driving school that I thought excelled in improving the kids on road driving.
The wet skid pad with a car with variable traction settings by using effectively 4 extra hyd training wheels to learn low speed skid control, and a straight line quick reaction car control exercise, where the car was driven at speed towards 3 coned lined adjacent lanes, and overhead there were three traffic lights, and lights would go from green to red randomly, and the students car would have to safely get to the one remaining green lane, and not hit any cones, every time the speed increased slightly.

The Eaton school I described earlier had the exact same set up. I was introduced to it during a regional conference of tank truck safety directors, most of them former drivers. A small group of us agreed to drive the course. Speed was increased with each pass, and participants were eliminated when they hit a cone. Two of us made it to the final round, the other guy caught a cone, and I made it through unscathed. The instructor took me aside afterwards, and told me that only one in 100 guys made it through the course at that speed.

Word got back to my boss, and I got a promotion soon after. Of greater consequence, was seven years later I lost my job in a company wide layoff. I went back on the truck, and drove for the next 18 years. I made it to retirement with 2 million accident free miles. I learned the skills when I was a teenager driving rural roads in winter. I got lucky, honing them as a rookie truck driver, coming out whole in a few situations where I could just as easily have been killed.

 

[WileE]

I went to the BEST driving school possible !! While in college, I drove a taxi in Manhattan for a part-time job, weekend nights !! Oh, yeah, at times I felt like I was driving at Talledega... "GET OUTTA MY WAY !! " 5 WIDE ON MADISON AVENUE... WOO-HOO !! {Edit: not exaggerating, it was wild }

 

[YY1]

When I moved to semi-rural central FL in 1988, from a city that was at the time twice as large as Tampa, I would routinely drive into a city, just to be in familiar traffic patterns.

How's that for whacked out?

It also helped orient me as to "where does that highway go to" to quote David Byrne.