Found 2 lifters not spinning...

[SwedCharger67]

Hi All, I was planning to reuse the Compcam and the lifters from my 383 in the new stroker engine...but found that 2 lifters haven't been spinning...
Previous owner of the car put in a new hotter Compcam's cam and lifters in the low compression engine, and the engine never run well, and therefore it has run very little (but enough to ruin 2 lifters)
The surface of the 2 lifters are gone, from the scratches it looks like the lifter bores weren't clean when the engine was assembled.

I attach 2 pics, one showing the lifter and the other showing the top of the cam lobe. The cam lobe shows sign of some extra wear, but very little and not all the way to the edge of the lobe.

Now, what do you think, can I survive with just 2 new lifters or is my only option a new set with cam and lifters??

 

[super-bee_ski]

New cam
new lifters
Also, that metal IS in the oil.
I have seen this before.
I believe the culprit to be:
Incorrect "break-in" oil with not enough Phosphates and Zinc.
In my opinion, only my opinion, untill I'm corrected by a more knowledgeable Forum team member.
BUT: now, oil companies have changed their formula.
That is why Royal Purple and a few other oil manufactures have included in their lineup a "Cam break in oil"
Lets see what some of the "masters" say on this...
"super-bee_ski"

 

[RustyRatRod]

I would do a complete teardown to get all the metal out.

 

[wannadrag]

I would do a complete teardown to get all the metal out.

X2

 

[Meep-Meep]

Hard to tell from the pic of the cam, but looking at the lifter it doesn't look like a lot of metal was removed. The cam still has a lobe, right? There are a lot of metal particles in a new engine anyway so I guess if you don't see oil that looks like metallic paint then you probably don't have much to worry about. But again, I'm not there and can't accurately asses the situation. I will agree your problem may have been caused by something not allowing the lifter to rotate; either a burr or some dirt. In the case of dirt you may want to make sure you have nothing in the oil galleys so doing some sort of a flush of the system will be a good idea. I wonder if you put some cheap thin oil in the sump and run the oil pump with the lifters out but the cam in and see if you can flush the lifter bores that way. I never tried this but it bears investigating. The thought of having oil with not enough additive as a possible cause of failure is worthy of discussion, but this is only one or two lifters, and if the rest don't show unusual wear then maybe that's not it. How much spring do you have? If you have dual springs you should do the cam break in with the inner removed. PITA but that's the way it supposed to be. The tapered cam lobe and convex lifter surface is actually a sort of roller bearing so anything that impedes the lifters rotation is sure and quick failure. Think about how much force it may take to stop a lifter that is rotated only by the edge of a cam lobe covered in oil.

 

[SwedCharger67]

Thanks for the comments.
I'm building a completely new engine so the plan was to just pull out the cam and the lifters from the 383 and plug them into the 512. So cleaning things is not a problem.

Just checked the lifter, the bottom is still concave, and yes, very little material is lost, you can barely feel anything.

I think the cam is still ok, unfortunately I don't have a micrometer for that range and cannot check the lobes right now. But since the wear isn't all the way to the edge of the lobe, I think the basic shape is still correct. It isn't possible to feel anything special on top of the lobe.

But, since I've already invested a lot of money in the stroker, I just bite the bullet and get a new cam set. The current cam I will reuse with new lifters in another engine with std iron heads.

 

[RustyRatRod]

From how the reflection looks on the lobe, it looks damaged. Can you get a better pic of it?

 

[SwedCharger67]

From how the reflection looks on the lobe, it looks damaged. Can you get a better pic of it?

I'll try tomorrow if it's possible to get a better pic!

 

[Funship32]

I would do a complete teardown to get all the metal out.

X3

Also for added info: I run Valvoline's VR1 Racing oil (organic, not the synth) as it has the zinc needed for the older engines.

 

[q-ship]

That lifter was not turning. All the Zinc (ZDDP) in the world wouldn't have stopped the wear.

Either lifter rotation was not checked during assembly, or the engine was assembled far too dirty, and dirt/debris got between the lifter and it's bore causing it not to turn.

In either case I would not even consider reusing that cam as it will guarantee a similar failure in it's new home no matter how little material was removed. It is no longer uniform and has probably breached the surface hardening.

Even considering the import costs to Sweden, re-using it is just asking for trouble.

 

[SwedCharger67]

Pics of the cam lobes...

From how the reflection looks on the lobe, it looks damaged. Can you get a better pic of it?

Here is an attempt to produce a better picture of the cam lobes...I'm still tempted to reused it in an engine with original type springs (need a BB to clear away the snow in wintertime ;), but I won't reuse it in my new engine...

 

[WP29440SE]

I would toss that thing so fast and never look back. with as cheap as cams are these days , I would never re-use a cam especially one that has already been damaged.

 

[ilm65]

X2

What he said!!! X3

 

[Moparsmitty]

What he said!!! X3

X4 Not worth the time and trouble of trying to reuse that cam/lifters just to have to tear it out and replace it anyway, probably after a few thousand miles.

 

[coloradodave]

X4... Can't tell if the hardness has been compromised. It's a small cost verses a lot of labor if it fails.

 

[64 Post]

no way i'd use that cam.

after you get the new cam, lifters and top end installed, and before you install the valley pan, use a sharpie to match mark all the lifters to the bores, then turn the engine over 720º and make sure all the lifters turn.

as mentioned, remove the inner spring, if applicable, for break in.

and one more thing, although it would be rare: check the length of ANY new cam against the length of a known good cam, preferably one that you already had in the engine.

i bought a racer brown cam that was shorter overall compared to two other cams i had in the same engine. i traced it to a #1 cam journal that was .040" narrower than spec. it almost cost me a new engine. i saw the problem when i turned the engine over by hand looking for lifter rotation. i sent pics of the cam installed and on the bench next to the other cams i had used and jim dowel, owner of racer brown, wouldn't acknowledge anything was wrong with it. he wouldn't refund my money either. i still have that $180 cam and i'm going to pay jim a visit one of these days now that i'm back in baltimore...