Gathering parts for a 6.4 swap need advice

[The_Cat]

So I've started the fun task of gathering parts and getting on wait lists for my 6.4 hemi swap. I had a couple questions I wanted to run by people that might have done this before I got them ordered. I am going to be purchasing a 6.4 hemi crate for my 69' Satellite that will be connecting up to a TKX transmission. I've been using ATX B Body's comprehensive list post as a rough guide on what to grab as I'm doing Holley for a lot of it. Along with that I've been youtubing the hell out of swap information and recently been following a guy named 68_charger that's installing a similar setup including a vintage air unit that I plan on doing.

So the questions that I have is there any reason to go with the stock crate harness over something like the Terminator X? I plan on installing a Borgeson Power steering unit in the future. Is there any hoops I need to jump through to adapt that to a gen 3 hemi? I thought I had read somewhere that there may be issues with the Hooker blackheart headers but couldn't remember if that was for a b body or an e body. I have 2 oldschool guys that will be helping me out on this so I'm trying to get ahead of any of the "gotchas" that I'm sure I'll run into either way.

 

[70chall440]

I am doing a 5.7 crate into a 71 with a TKX, very similar project. Essentially I am using most of what you are planning to use except I am using TTI headers and motor mounts, Holley pan, mid plate, and a Holley Terminator X Max harness. I already have all of the parts but have not yet began the build yet.

I did an extensive amount of research on this as I was acquiring parts and here are my findings/opinions;

Harness - I chose the Terminator X Max because I have experience with the Holley software and like it. I think it is more versatile than the Mopar harness but admittedly do not have any experience with that harness other than what I have read. I guess my main point is that IMO the Holley is easier to tune and I can tune it myself plus you can tunes online or have someone send you a tune.

Headers - I went with TTI because I have them on my 73 Cuda and the fitment is fantastic

Motor Mounts - I went with TTI because they guarantee that their headers will fit if using their mounts

Steering box - I chose the Borgeson mainly because I already have 2 Firm Feel stage 3 boxes and wanted to try something new

Oil pan - I went with Holley because I really like the cast aluminum aspect and the fact that it came as a complete kit

Mid Plate - I bought this because I did not want the AC compressor down on the driver's side of the engine. It can work here as many of done it but I wanted it on the passenger side somewhat similar to the factory layout. Additionally this repositions the alternator and PS pump much like the original configuration of the car. Lastly, the way that the Holley mid plate mounts and positions the PS pump it allows me to use a Type II LS pump which I am using because I am going to be running a hydroboost brake system and wanted the return line to go directly to reservoir.

TKX - I am using their kit which got me everything I needed for that (bellhousing, clutch, PP, TB, TB Hyd system, cross member, etc.). I was going to run a 833 but decided to use the TKX because I want to run 3.55 gears and that 5th gear will be good for the hwy and cruising.

Not sure if any of this is helpful but here it is.

 

[64 Sportfury]

I have gathered all the parts for a 6.4 crate engine swap into a 68 Coronet wagon. I added the Mopar FEAD accessories some of which will require some triming. I went with Holley for pretty much all the swap pieces. As I mentioned in a different thread, my Terminator X Max took 6 mos. to get. I am using Holley engine brackets which move the engine and trans forward 2 or so inches from what I can find. I went with the Hooker Blackheart headers to ensure proper fit. I wanted to go with a Borgeson steering box but I too couldn't find whether there is an issue with the Holley brackets/Blackheart headers. I went with the Mopar 45 degree oil filter adapter which must be trimmed to fit a factory K member. I am going with an A500 trans w/lock up which is at the trans builder. The engine /trans being moved forward may aid in the A500 install. I am following this thread to find out a definitive answer on the Borgeson box fit. I added Vintage Air in my wagon when I swapped in the 390 stroker. It works nice and installed without issue. In the event I use the factory steering box, I have read different experiences regarding the power steering pressure the factory gen III pump (Toyoda) puts out (too much) when using factory steering box. There are vehicles that use the Toyoda pumps that have valves that reduce this pressure. I have also read where some folks didn't reduce the pressure and had no issue. If this is info you already acquired, then it may help someone else doing the swap.

 

[The_Cat]

Thanks for the responses! The Borgeson on a 68-70 is a big one so I want to do my due diligence. If you don't mind me asking, where are you guys purchasing your crate engines from? Originally I thought about trying to do the salvage yard thing, but I'm completely out of my element on where to begin searching and what to look for. Also I worry that I would be tempted to stretch for a hellcat

 

[70chall440]

I bought my crate from JEGs actually, at the time I was looking for one they had the best price. I looked everywhere, tried to get any deal I could but in the end JEGs had the best price. That said, it still took several months to get but it came directly from Mopar.

 

[64 Sportfury]

I purchased my 6.4 crate from Scoggins-Dickey in Texas. When Dodge announced they would stop making G3 Hemis I searched and they had them in stock. It took about a week and a half to get.

 

[Mopar Hunter]

 

[What’s up dock]

The Borgeson box does fit with the Holley mounts and headers. I just installed one into my 67 charger. 6.4 with the Holley power steering pump. Fits like a glove. I haven't installed the low mount a/c pump, but I should have more room than my other car with 6.1/TTI mounts and headers. I had to beat the hell out of the number 1 header tube, which isn't fun on a 1000 dollar set of headers.
Just a little info for anyone readying this, and thinking about the holley headers. They do fit like a glove. I did find that some of the block casting pad by the drivers motor mount will hit and hold the header out. Only took seconds to clearance.
Another tip would be the block pad, next to the starter, down by the oil pan rail. This must be ground down for starter clearance in most cases, even mini starters.

 

[64 Sportfury]

That right there is what Mopar guys need. Actual experience and confirmation. Thanks much, Dock. Question, are you using the Holley serpentine drive system? I have the Mopar version and will need to check the differences.

 

[What’s up dock]

No, I'm using the stock mopar 6.4 timing cover. I just mocked up the a/c pump, and it fits perfectly. With the holley mounts and headers, it clears the k-frame with no mods, and still retains the rear mounting bolt on the compressor. And no denting of the headers!
I do like the holley front cover set-up, and would have went that route if I didn't already have the stock stuff. I'd much rather have the a/c pump on the pass side, up high. I think it would make for a cleaner looking install for the a/c lines.

 

[64 Sportfury]

Again, I appreciate your sharing this info with the Mopar community and especially me. The Holley serpentine system does look nice. I agree with you on the a/c compressor positioning. I can make it work as well. Do you have a build thread for your 67? While Holley has made these swaps easier, its the non-Holley parts that are a crapshoot. I need to renew my membership to this forum for this and many other reasons.

 

[The_Cat]

Couple more questions for the guys that have Terminator X Max setups. Holley is showing 2 versions, one being EV1 and the other EV6 for 2013+ engines. From my research it appears that new crate engines with be EV6 (plastic end). This seem correct? Next question is the pedal. It doesn't look like the X setup comes with a drive by wire pedal, but I wanted to double check first. Last question is VVT. Holley's site seems to say the Terminator X Max 2013+ is for Non-VVT but then specifies below 2003-2006 Non-VVT. I know that the Terminator X Max does VVT so does that mean I need to purchase an addition harness on top of the kit?

 

[What’s up dock]

I feel your pain. I was researching this also for my next build.
You are correct, EV6 is the newer style injector. The additional harness is this:
Holley EFI 558-132 Holley EFI GEN III HEMI VVT and SRV Harness

 

[64 Sportfury]

Yes Cat you are correct regarding the 2013 + engines having the EV6 injectors. No the EMS (Engine Management System) does not come with the DBW (Drive-By-Wire) pedal. I purchased p/n 04861714AF for the DBW pedal. The X Max requires a DBW pedal. Since I am using an A500 transmission, I had to modify the pedal for the throttle pressure lever/kickdown. I added a bellcrank using a fabbed bracket. The DBW pedal has about 3/4" travel. The bellcrank multiplies that to about 1 1/2". I will attach another bracket to locate the cable kickdown end. Two identical photos. I cannot eliminate one of them. As Dock stated, you need to purchase the VVT/SRV harness.

 

[64 Sportfury]

 

[64 Sportfury]

One other thing I found about the X Max. In order for the system to provide fuel pressure on the display, you must purchase a Holley sensor that plugs into the harness. The sensor cost is $163. It is not necessary to run the EMS. I decided to simply use an analog gauge under hood to adjust and confirm proper fuel pressure.

 

[origcharger]

The Borgeson box does fit with the Holley mounts and headers. I just installed one into my 67 charger. 6.4 with the Holley power steering pump. Fits like a glove. I haven't installed the low mount a/c pump, but I should have more room than my other car with 6.1/TTI mounts and headers. I had to beat the hell out of the number 1 header tube, which isn't fun on a 1000 dollar set of headers.
Just a little info for anyone readying this, and thinking about the holley headers. They do fit like a glove. I did find that some of the block casting pad by the drivers motor mount will hit and hold the header out. Only took seconds to clearance.
Another tip would be the block pad, next to the starter, down by the oil pan rail. This must be ground down for starter clearance in most cases, even mini starters.

Recently wrapped up a 6.4 swap into my 67 Charger using Holley mounts, headers and Borgeson box. I had to swap one of the steering gear bolts for a socket head and dent the number one header tube for clearance....

 

[What’s up dock]

That's weird....mine was clear in that area, but I had to grind the block pad, because it was holding header away from the head slightly.
See arrow added to your pic

 

[What’s up dock]

I had a pic of in my phone. I'll try to get one that matches your pics angle, but I'm clear in that area. It's by far the closest area, but no dents needed. I'm using the mancini poly lock isolator on that side, maybe its a little thicker

 

[69ChargerR/TSE]

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