Gen III Hemi crate

[cdr]

Have to disagree, the 5.7 in my 2010 Challenger and 2014 Ram are definitely not dogs. I guess it depends on what your intentions or desires are, if you are looking for big HP then sure, go with the 6.1, 6.2 or 6.4 but for a street car/driver, the 5.7 does well. In crate form the 5.7 delivers 375-390 HP whereas the 6.4 is 425; an easy cam swap and headers on the 5.7 and you are right there. Sure you could do the cam swap and headers on the 6.4 and get more HP but it is all about value per dollar and IMO the 5.7 has more of that.

my 6.4 is 485 hp stock in my Challenger

 

[70chall440]

You are correct, the crate 6.4 is advertised as 485 hp, I was thinking of the 6.1. Either way, its all good.

 

[440 PHIXX]

Do they make valve covers that don’t have the coils on them? I know that would be a step back performance wise but that look just never works for me.

 

[70chall440]

Yes, Indy makes some but be prepared for sticker shock... I think they are around $500. Then you have to mount the coils somewhere else. I looked at doing this to get that "old school" hemi look but it would require a new intake in addition to the valve covers. Cool look but not worth $1000+

 

[Mopar Hunter]

Has anybody seen this gen III out yet?

 

[MoparLeo]

If your looking at a more stock engine. There are a couple of new 5.7 Mopar 5.7 in the box for $3500.00 each.
https://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/d/fontana-dodge-ram-truck-57-hemi-motor/7412323216.html

 

[snakeoil24]

I bought my 5.7 from Jegs, they were the cheapest I found. Modern Muscle lists a 6.4 (392) for $8k but what they don't tell you is that they have to build your engine once you pay for it. I called and talked to them, I was not impressed.

I was really looking for a 6.4 but in the end just could not reconcile the cost difference between the 5.7 and the 6.4 for what I am doing. I chose to go with a 5.7 crate engine for around $6K and then bought a 392 (6.4) cam and springs which will yield about 60HP more. I am not looking for big HP, I am looking for reliability and drivability and I think that anything over 400HP will do just fine. I could also pro charge it and get over 500hp but then start to risking breaking things I think.

I have built 2 5.7 motors everything is beefier on the 6.1,6.2 and 6.4 from Crank to rods and heads. Forged parts will give long life. THe valve seats in 5.7 have a big issue with coming out solved in hte 6.1 and 6.4.

 

[70chall440]

"Better" is a relative term and is commensurate with the application. I agree that a 6.1, 6.2 and 6.4 Hemi's are "better" than a 5.7 Hemi is a number of ways, however that does not mean that the 5.7 is "bad". There are far more 5.7's out there than the others and they have withstood the test of time, they produce adequate power, are reliable and durable and therefore suit the needs of many to include a number of classic car enthusiasts to include me. I will not lie, I would have rather had a 6.4 but the cost difference was too great and as the saying goes "the view was not worth the drive" given that the intention of the build was/is to make a very reliable, durable driver with adequate power to make things interesting, all of which a 5.7 will produce.

This is the same old argument that is applied to so many other things; is a 340 better than a 318? Of course it is but that doesn't mean every car needs one. Same issue with a 383 and a 440 and so on but there are different reasons to use different motors. By some of the logic presented here EVERY classic mopar should be running a G2 426 Hemi or a G3 6.1, 6.2 or 6.4 Hemi and everything else should be scrap.

There is an *** for every seat and an engine bay for every engine.

 

[snakeoil24]

"Better" is a relative term and is commensurate with the application. I agree that a 6.1, 6.2 and 6.4 Hemi's are "better" than a 5.7 Hemi is a number of ways, however that does not mean that the 5.7 is "bad". There are far more 5.7's out there than the others and they have withstood the test of time, they produce adequate power, are reliable and durable and therefore suit the needs of many to include a number of classic car enthusiasts to include me. I will not lie, I would have rather had a 6.4 but the cost difference was too great and as the saying goes "the view was not worth the drive" given that the intention of the build was/is to make a very reliable, durable driver with adequate power to make things interesting, all of which a 5.7 will produce.

This is the same old argument that is applied to so many other things; is a 340 better than a 318? Of course it is but that doesn't mean every car needs one. Same issue with a 383 and a 440 and so on but there are different reasons to use different motors. By some of the logic presented here EVERY classic mopar should be running a G2 426 Hemi or a G3 6.1, 6.2 or 6.4 Hemi and everything else should be scrap.

There is an *** for every seat and an engine bay for every engine.

You sound naive but experience will change that if I was in your place and had made the investment already your stuck with it and the term relative is not realistic the later versions where brought out to correct the failures of the 5.7 hey merry Christmas. If your in the position even for a mild stock build get rid of it. The comment you made about 318 is also wrong as well they were very well designed motors. Sorry for being straight up

 

[70chall440]

Look I know its frustrating when everyone doesn't listen to you and disagrees with your point of view which from your standpoint is the only correct one, however everything is in fact "relative" depending upon many factors which you want to ignore but are real. Resorting to tossing out names or pseudo insults is neither warranted or helpful. You don't know me, nor I you and I have given you the benefit of the doubt that your POV is based off your experience but your complete lack of understanding that other people have other needs, desires and constraints which would make them choose something other than what you feel is the "best" is a disservice to other members here. You have a right to your opinion as does everyone else.

Its clear that we are not going to agree on this issue or probably many more, so have a Merry Christmas and stay safe.

 

[snakeoil24]

Look I know its frustrating when everyone doesn't listen to you and disagrees with your point of view which from your standpoint is the only correct one, however everything is in fact "relative" depending upon many factors which you want to ignore but are real. Resorting to tossing out names or pseudo insults is neither warranted or helpful. You don't know me, nor I you and I have given you the benefit of the doubt that your POV is based off your experience but your complete lack of understanding that other people have other needs, desires and constraints which would make them choose something other than what you feel is the "best" is a disservice to other members here. You have a right to your opinion as does everyone else.

Its clear that we are not going to agree on this issue or probably many more, so have a Merry Christmas and stay safe.

It is not frustrating at all thanks for your thoughts just make commenters based on facts. Using the word relative is not what we want others too use in their decision process. In your case you bought what you have. That means replace the word relative with the word rationalize your decision. You mentioned 318?vs 360 here is an example with the 318 being one of the best small blocks every built. Just do your home work

 

[70chall440]

Rationalize and relative and symbiotic in that a decision is based on a number of "relative" factors thus providing a rationalization for the decision made. The semantics notwithstanding, the realty is that decisions are made based on the situation that exists.

I am not disparaging the 318 in anyway, I have had many of them over the years and in fact still have one in my 68 Cuda. However, this is a almost perfect segue into the discussion of 5.7 vs the 6.1/2/4 discussion in that most 318 owners would (or have) opted for a replacement by a 340 or 360. It doesn't mean that the 318 is a bad motor or that it cannot make power, be reliable, etc. but the change is made for many other factors not the least of which is prestige. Personally I view the G3 Hemi situation to be very similar in that while a 6.1/2/4 engine might be "better" in many respects this does not mean that the 5.7 is unworthy or not without its applications.

In other words, this is not an "apples to apples" discussion, if the case was trying to be made that the 5.7 was "as good" or otherwise "equal to" the 6 series than I would agree with your assertions, however that is not the discussion.

I realize that in this medium (online forum) that the participants do now know one another, each other's depth (or lack thereof) of experience and there of course is a lot of posturing that takes place, but as in all forms of human communication and interaction it is unwise to assume that the other participant/s lack any degree of experience or knowledge.

 

[snakeoil24]

Rationalize and relative and symbiotic in that a decision is based on a number of "relative" factors thus providing a rationalization for the decision made. The semantics notwithstanding, the realty is that decisions are made based on the situation that exists.

I am not disparaging the 318 in anyway, I have had many of them over the years and in fact still have one in my 68 Cuda. However, this is a almost perfect segue into the discussion of 5.7 vs the 6.1/2/4 discussion in that most 318 owners would (or have) opted for a replacement by a 340 or 360. It doesn't mean that the 318 is a bad motor or that it cannot make power, be reliable, etc. but the change is made for many other factors not the least of which is prestige. Personally I view the G3 Hemi situation to be very similar in that while a 6.1/2/4 engine might be "better" in many respects this does not mean that the 5.7 is unworthy or not without its applications.

In other words, this is not an "apples to apples" discussion, if the case was trying to be made that the 5.7 was "as good" or otherwise "equal to" the 6 series than I would agree with your assertions, however that is not the discussion.

I realize that in this medium (online forum) that the participants do now know one another, each other's depth (or lack thereof) of experience and there of course is a lot of posturing that takes place, but as in all forms of human communication and interaction it is unwise to assume that the other participant/s lack any degree of experience or knowledge.

Finally a good response the 318, 340 and 360 are and where very stout motors from a construction point of view. The failings withe the 5.7 as follows
1. Shallow valve seat area causing seat failures, lifter problems with splash from crank center line being too far from camshaft center line poor lifter bore oiling and a nodular crank with poor bearing support and the worst part is telling people the 5.7 is a hemi when it’s a polysphere when a real hemi long gone is a hemispherical combustution chamber

 

[70chall440]

I cannot debate what you describe as the "failings" suffice to offer anecdotal information in that there is a significant population of these engines in a very wide array of vehicles many of which have yielded well over 200,000 miles. I am not trying to say that the issues you cite are not real or in fact issues other than to say that if this engine was "bad" it would not have been made in the quantity it is and continues to be.

All this said, again I think we are not having a "apples to apples" discussion in that it would appear your position is one based from a performance and perhaps ruggedness prospective which I respect. I concede that the 6 series engines offer more performance and perhaps are better constructed to withstand more abuse (I saw perhaps because I have not opened one up nor do I have any experience hotrodding or modifying one..yet). So from a pure "apples to apples" comparison I would agree that the 6 series are better engines, however I would quickly add that a 5.7 will yield acceptable performance, reliability and durability for applications such as the one I and others are engaged in.

For me this is about the right tool for the right job and in my situation the 5.7 will do what I need it to do. If I fell into a 6 series engine I would most certainly use it but I seriously doubt that is going to happen and as I said, I am very happy with the 5.7 in my 10 Challenger as well as my 14 Ram 2500.

 

[snakeoil24]

I had 2-5.7 in a 20-4 and 2016 challenger I had to rebuild both as did my son with him 07 Charger

 

[RemCharger]

Good information about the cam being too high and poor crank splash oiling on the 5.7s. Glad they moved it down on the bigger motors. Fixed the lifter problem altogether.

Finally a good response the 318, 340 and 360 are and where very stout motors from a construction point of view. The failings withe the 5.7 as follows
1. Shallow valve seat area causing seat failures, lifter problems with splash from crank center line being too far from camshaft center line poor lifter bore oiling and a nodular crank with poor bearing support and the worst part is telling people the 5.7 is a hemi when it’s a polysphere when a real hemi long gone is a hemispherical combustution chamber

 

[Kern Dog]

The cam position was not lowered. The cam centerline is in the same place.

 

[BB BELLA]

I have built 2 5.7 motors everything is beefier on the 6.1,6.2 and 6.4 from Crank to rods and heads. Forged parts will give long life. THe valve seats in 5.7 have a big issue with coming out solved in hte 6.1 and 6.4.

the 5.7 valve seat issue was fixed in 09!

 

[snakeoil24]

the 5.7 valve seat issue was fixed in 09!

I though so too but my 14 dropped the valve seat

 

[392heminut]

I have a 2004 5.7 Hemi in my Cuda. It's been in the car for over 12 years now and yeah, I've hammered on it. That thing still runs great. I guess there's something wrong with it since it's still running just fine?!?!