Headers: A love, hate relationship...

[70rr-brian]

I know a lot of you fellows don't run headers for this reason alone, other just don't think they are necessary for your run of the mill BB and that's fine.

But I had to replace my full size starter today that has TTI headers on it. The thing had been giving up the ghost for a few years now and finally bit the dust last week. All I can say is OMFG! I knew it was going to suck...but I had no idea just how much.

Started at 9am...finished at 4pm. I did it alone on jack stands...in retrospect I should have probably enlisted some help. I had to seperate the headers and the starter similtaneously and basically stand the headers straight up in the engine bay after jacking the motor up 4 inches just to get the damn thing out. Taking it out took almost 5 hours of the 7 hours I worked on it. Twisting, lifting, bleeding and cussing all the way.

I knew this day was coming and I had looked into mini-starters of all varieties but at the end of the day, I went with a $42 remanufactured full size again... Took me 1 hour to go get a replacement and 1 hour to put it all back together. Next time, now I know the exact steps necessary it shouldn't take me any more than 3 hours doing it the same way. (Hopefully there won't be a next time any time soon.)

On the upside...the new starter cranks good and I went and ran the hell out of the car to get it as hot as I could and it still starts like it does when it is cold. But I need a massage BADLY now!

 

[tpodwdog]

whewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.......

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

LOL! bloody knuckles McCoy....I was able to slip mine in through the hooker super comps, even though they hit on both sides of the engine bay.Still need needle fingers and infant hands lol

 

[Kern Dog]

You didn't state the car or the engine, but looking at your screen name and what is written on the bottom of your post, it appears that you have a 70 Road Runner?
My 70 Charger 440/493 also uses TTI headers, mine are the 2" versions. Clearance around my Denso mini starter is pretty good for a Mopar. I've developed a few tricks over the years to expedite crappy jobs. First and foremost on header tasks is to get the car as high in the air as you safely can. You were correct in that they need to dang near come out with the collector pointing straight down! Certainly your choice of using a full sized starter made things more difficult.
Another tidbit that I've tried: Use a 12-16" pigtail for the starter leads. You connect them to the starter before putting the starter in place, THEN attach the pigtail to the rest of the cars wiring. This eliminates the difficult task of starting and tightening the nuts ON the starter after the header is in place. My first header swap in the charger was from Hooker 5903 to 5209. It took me 9 hours.

 

[shag766]

haven't had the pleasure yet but i like that 12-16 inch lead wire trick.:headbang:

 

[Al K]

Greg;thanks for the tip. I want to place the battery in the trunk and need to modify the wires. That pig-tail setup sounds like one I need. I'm running a '96 Dakota starter on the ol' 413,with Hedman units and no clearance issues.

 

[65 Plymouth Satellite 426]

Now I Know I'm Not Putting Headers On My '65!:angry1:

 

[Moparsmitty]

I've said it before in other posts. I like the look and quality of TTIs, But the Headman headers with slightly smaller tubes just plain fit better. Easier in and out and a full size starter with no clearance issues.

 

[Ron 73]

SB good for a new benefit maybe!

Ive read of the nightmares here with headers and changing starters, plugs and such, I have a SB and i guess thats why i seem to have it easier (smaller tube diameter), I put a starter on last summer (full size) with little trouble and then had to replace it again as it wasn't any good, and this car with a 318 is the simplest one ive ever had for changing plugs.. I do plan on regular stock manifolds when the time comes for a new set of headers that i may need.. Not a racer, i see no benefit for headers for how i drive.

 

[Ralph Cali]

I use the TTI headers in my 73 RR with a 440 BB and a mini starter by powermaster. I needed to take the starter out once and just remove the headers bolts except the front one for wiggle space. Was not the easiest task to do laying on your back, took a couple of hours to remove, but nothing like the others have stated.
Ralph

 

[ws27]

Well, I'll be posting a set of 440 TTI headers for sale soon, thanks I really appreciate it.

 

[70rr-brian]

Well, I'll be posting a set of 440 TTI headers for sale soon, thanks I really appreciate it.

LOL sorry. I am not dissing them. They went in easy with the motor on the hoist. I was just simply pointing out that changing the starter with the motor still in the car was a headwound. As much as a PIA as it was I would probably put them on my next one too.

 

[Satellite72]

I totally feel your pain on the whole starter thing.... I just did the exact same task as you a few weeks ago, and during the process I was wishing I had my manifolds back..... It took me much longer than I would have thought. When taking of the original bulky starter I was hoping to get if off with out fiddling with the headers, but that proved to be wrong. Ended up dropping one side of the header to get it out. It was replaced with a mini-starter and boy was I happy with the fit and the way it cranked.

 

[Budnicks]

The extra 10% plus in some cases, of extra power & torque of tube headers, is well worth the trouble, the easist HP/TQ increase for the buck IMHO... But if "your not concerned about the added extra power & torque, just stick with the Hi-Po 68-70 heavy, more restrictive cast iron manifolds" {the best of the BB wedge stock cast iron exhaust manifolds, except for 62-65 S/S or M/W heavy cast iron headers}, the mini starters, Tilton {pricey/clockable}, Denso & Powermaster are much better either way, less fit issues {need to shorten main 12vt stud to clear the block}, especially with headers & less heat soak too boot on either type exhaust system...

 

[Richard Cranium]

I've had enough headers on big blocks to (finally) come to the realization that they just aren't worth the trouble on a street car.

 

[Kern Dog]

Exhaust manifolds are for the following:

Guys who want to maintain a factory stock appearance.
Guys who are cheap.
Guys that have limited mechanical ability.
Guys that never exceed 4500 rpms.
Guys with limited patience.
Guys that live on bumpy roads that worry about damage.

 

[tpodwdog]

Exhaust manifolds are for the following:

Guys who want to maintain a factory stock appearance.
Guys who are cheap.
Guys that have limited mechanical ability.
Guys that never exceed 4500 rpms.
Guys with limited patience.
Guys that live on bumpy roads that worry about damage.

everything you have posted lately just makes you look like an amateur.
we all have " been there ...done that"...junior. we were all once all full of piss and vinegar at one time....just like you are. and there isnt a mistake made that any or all of us have not made...that you are about to make!:headbang:

have you heard the story of the old bull and the young bull....allow me to tell you :

young bull..... " HEY...LETS RUN DOWN THERE AND HAVE OUR WAY WITH ONE OF THEM COWS"


old bull....." lets walk down and have our way with ALLLLLLLL of them"

good luck YOUNG Jedi !

 

[Budnicks]

everything you have posted lately just makes you look like an amateur.
we all have " been there ...done that"...junior. we were all once all full of piss and vinegar at one time....just like you are. and there isnt a mistake made that any or all of us have not made...that you are about to make!:headbang:

have you heard the story of the old bull and the young bull....allow me to tell you :

young bull..... " HEY...LETS RUN DOWN THERE AND HAVE OUR WAY WITH ONE OF THEM COWS"


old bull....." lets walk down and have our way with ALLLLLLLL of them"

good luck YOUNG Jedi !

Play nice now...

 

[Kern Dog]

Relax Tripod dog.
One sad fact: OLD guys tell OLD jokes that everyone has heard, while thinking that THEY are the first ones to tell them.
I can see by your posts that you are content with your car and that is great. There is room enough here for guys like you that still like to set their ignition points and drive at 55 on the freeway. There is room for guys that never exceed 3500 rpms, never race their cars, always maintain 12 car lengths of space on the road....I'll bet that you live a thrilling life.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Relax Tripod dog.
One sad fact: OLD guys tell OLD jokes that everyone has heard, while thinking that THEY are the first ones to tell them.
I can see by your posts that you are content with your car and that is great. There is room enough here for guys like you that still like to set their ignition points and drive at 55 on the freeway. There is room for guys that never exceed 3500 rpms, never race their cars, always maintain 12 car lengths of space on the road....I'll bet that you live a thrilling life.