Headlight Wiring Question

[Propwash]

Hey Gent's......Gotta Electrical Question

I'm currently in the process of converting my headlights system on my bird to not only a relay driven system but also HID with the H4 and H1 headlamps. I'm trying to set up the system to run quad lighting (highs and lows) when the highbeams are engaged. Main reason being is the short delay with the ballasts when engaging the circuit.

The set up is quite a bit different than stock, so typical wiring is out the window. The HID bulbs have a single + and a single -, with no jumping to each. Anyways, I'm running a relay for the lows and one for the highs. The stock signal wires from the headlight switch for the high or the low beams go to each applicable relay.

My thought was to splice the high beam trigger wire (before the high beam relay), and jump that to the low beam trigger wire and splice into one to meet the terminal on the low beam relay. I also thought of installing a diode in that jumper wire from the high to low so when I just had the lows engaged, current wouldn't flow in the opposite direction across the jumper and activate the high beam relay, thus all 4 lights on no matter what. On top of that I figured to put another diode on the low side before the splice so not to worry about current flowing back up towards the headlight switch. I'm no electrical wizard, but can handle my own....In this case though I feel i'm digging a bit too deep or going further than I really need to with the diodes being it's DC...

Any thoughts would be appreciated..Pic below





View attachment 97391

 

[TheSwede]

Hi prop, here is my adwise, go for a solid screened H4 for the low beam.
http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00ICeTBzRMaDcp/HID-Xenon-Lamp-H4-HB2-.jpg

if you choose 4300 K it will be a little yellow, 5000 K would be my choise, 6000 K and it is a little blue and will give you less lumen.

Then you go for a non screened bulb for the high beam, H4 or H1 doesnt matter, you can buy a set of 4 screened H4 bulbs and remove the screens on two of them.

Now you take the LowB signal wire to a relay that will activate the screened H4 Ballast, low beem will always be on with this connection.

Than take the HighB signal wire to a relay that will activate the non screened H4 Ballast, high beem will now be activated when you press the floor switch and you will still have low beam on.
With this there is no need for a diod, you keep the high and low beam seperated.

The high beam needs a little time to warm up before it gives you full power, it depends on what brand and quality you intend to buy but you have the lowbeam with full power already so it wont be a problem.
Some people recommend a H4 moving low/high bulb with additional wire kit but that is crap, the coil in the bulbs WILL burn after a while and it will stick in low or high position. And the mechanism will screen the bulb so you don´t get the most out of the bulb.

If you build it like mine suggestion this it will give you a problem free super strong light, (I had a company that was importing and selling HID kits before)

If you want to add some bling go with the tri-bar http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3-4-CLEAR-BLUE-DOT-TRI-BAR-HEADLIGHTS-H4-BRIGHT-FITS-CHEVY-IMPALA-CHEVELLE-/140898915048?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20ce3ad2e8&vxp=mtr

Or the Halo http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-3-4-WHITE-HALO-HALOGEN-H4-BULB-HEADLIGHT-ANGEL-EYE-LED-Fits-Harley-Motorcycle-/330761272798?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4d02e87dde&vxp=mtr

I have some pictures in my thread of the tri-bar, page 6.

 

[Propwash]

Thank a bunch Swede. I appreciate it. Your post and thread on your restoration are very informative. I didn't know I could have just went with all H4's and just remove the screen for the high beams. Makes perfect sense. I ended up buying two 6000K kits. Either way I'll still end up with a lot more lumens than the old sealed beams.

So as far as the wiring goes, just run each seperate signal wire to each seperate relay and the lows will stay on anyways when turning on the highbeams? Going through the old wiring, the low beam lamp had 3 terminals; the low beam wire, high beam wire and a ground. From there the Highbeam wire piggybacked off the low beam lamp and jumped to the Highbeam lamp. The Highbeam light only had that wire jumping from the low beam and a ground (two terminals). In that set up it's easy to see how the factory headlight wiring had quad lighting when the high beams were engaged.

Here's where it gets a little confusing to me I guess....The HID bulbs have two wires a piece with no terminal connectors. A + and a -. If I just run the signal wires seperately to each relay, how will the low beams stay on with the highs if there is no jumper wires in between the two? Does the low beam signal wire stay hot (+) when the high beams are engaged? I don't know, but I would guess no judging by the factory jumping wires from high to low. Sure would be nice if it did stay hot. If not, I was thinking of jumping forward of the relays, but there's a lot more power flowing up there compared to just the signal wires before the relays. Not to mention only about 6" of wiring between the ballast and bulb up there.

 

[TheSwede]

OK so you made me go out in the garage Prop, you are right about the wires, the lo beam shifts when shifting to high beam and it was not possible to connect them either, current went backwards so a diod is needed, otherwise it will be in both low and high all the time.

(I had a tough power drop of 1 volt from battery to bulbs, wont matter when I shift to HID but it sure make a differens if I stay with halogen or sealed beam.)

The HID I was testing is a 8000K but even so it is an enormous differens, like night and day, a HID equipped car has got better light with just low beam then a sealed beam with low and high beam.

 

[Propwash]

Thanks so much for your time and imput.. Going out in the garage and testing the system is really nice of you. Thank you. That is very valuable information that you just sorted out for me. That comparison between the two lighting types is amazing! Literally night and day. Going off what you just researched i'm just going to go ahead and splice the Diodes into my signal wires as initially planned. I'm still waiting on my H1 Hella headlamps, but hopefully I should have the whole system up and running by this weekend.

I did decide on the HID's after your recommendation off an earlier electrical thread. After a bunch or reading, research and asking questions, both Halogen and HID have their Pro's and Con's. In the end the HID's pro's outweigh the Halogen's. Along with your recommendation and that, is why the HID's are going in. As like you taking the time to post your HID converstion on here and your thread, I hope to do the same with mine when I wrap it up. Seems like there really isn't a whole lot of us making the conversion, so maybe down the road all this information will help someone else out trying to do the same.

Thanks again Joakim. I really do appreciate it. You're a top notch guy making this a top notch Mopar website.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Yeah,
Remember how diodes work...
They block DC

 

[rsd859]

Good info, I cant wait to do this conversion myself.

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

Yeah,
Remember how diodes work...
They block DC

In one direction only.
I would add that on these cars, the second diode would not be necessary as the low beam signal lead dead ends at the high/low foot switch not the headlight switch. With the foot switch in the high beam selection, the low side is not connected to anything.

 

[Propwash]

That's a good point '72 RRGTX. Thanks. To confirm, I would still be energizing the low beam signal wire with high beams on, but just to high/low selector switch and to the relay the opposite way, correct? (without a diode in the low beam wire)

Lets just say i'm on high beams....The low beam selector wire would have power traveling through to the relay and to the beam selector switch. Would there be an issue when switching back to low beam now that I shifted current flow across the contact in the floor hi/lo switch for the low beam selector wire? Would that lead to a short or a spike in that slight moment those positives would touch across that circuit in that floor switch, traveling in different directions or wouldn't it matter because power is eliminated from the high beam signal wire at the same time?

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

The single bridging diode, oriented as you have diagramed it above, will energize both relays with +12 volts present on the high beam lead (purple wire) and only the low beam relay when +12 volts is present on the red wire(low beam out from the foot switch). And yes, the red wire will be energized back to the foot switch when in the high position as well but dead ends there, has no effect on what you are trying to do or any other vehicle circuits. For those that may not know, a diode is basically a electrical check valve for DC, current is blocked in one direction only.
Import to remember too when working with diodes; although it is popularly conceptualized when working with DC, that “power” flows from the power source (battery) to the load(in this case the relay primaries), in fact current flow is from negative to positive, or from ground to the voltage source.

 

[Propwash]

Alright, Below is a wiring schematic I put together for the Dual Relay HID Quad Lighting System; with all lights on while high beams are engaged.
A guy could use this same schematic for installing halogen bulbs and headlamps, just run the 87 wires off the relays to the appropriate lamps.
Obviously there would not be ballasts involved with the halogen set up.

I appreciate all the help given thus far and hopefully the harness schematic can do the same for other folks down the road. Obviously tweaking could be done as in In line fuses, fusible links or heavier gauge wire, completely up to the person installing it and personal preference.

 

[747mopar]

Pretty cool stuff, I haven't got to my headlights yet but will be following this as I to want to upgrade my lighting. I am planning on using diodes as well only to operate a solenoid operated vacuum valve to open the headlight doors (clean up all of the hoses). Way to go Swede, not to many people will go out of there way like that to help someone out.:hello2: Good luck

- - - Updated - - -

 

[super-bee_ski]

In one direction only.
I would add that on these cars, the second diode would not be necessary as the low beam signal lead dead ends at the high/low foot switch not the headlight switch. With the foot switch in the high beam selection, the low side is not connected to anything.

Yup,
And a good point.

I would build a practice circuit. Can be done "on the bench"

 

[Propwash]

Yup,
And a good point.

I would build a practice circuit. Can be done "on the bench"

It can be done my friend......and could quite possibly explain the short circuit in my head.:grin:

 

[72RoadrunnerGTX]

What year car are you working with? Walking by my current ’72 project in the garage today, noticed and was reminded that, for ’71-74 anyway, original color code low beam is violet(purple) and high beam was red, the reverse of your first diagram. The high beam dash indicator will be paralleled off the red side of the foot switch.

 

[Propwash]

What year car are you working with? Walking by my current ’72 project in the garage today, noticed and was reminded that, for ’71-74 anyway, original color code low beam is violet(purple) and high beam was red, the reverse of your first diagram. The high beam dash indicator will be paralleled off the red side of the foot switch.

Good call...Car is a '69 and has the same wiring/colors as your '72. Thanks. Drawings above are fixed to reflect.

 

[747mopar]

I'm hopefully going to install my dash this weekend which means the wiring will commence, so it's time for me to figure out which wires I need to run. I like what you are doing and wanted to know a little more about the setup, how many amps do they require, where do you buy them, etc. My battery is in the trunk but the harness I used has a few extra fused circuits using 12 AWG wire and 20 amp fuses that I might be able to use to power the relays (headlights). If you've got yours working, are they bright enough that not having all 4 on would be plenty bright enough. Thanks

 

[TheSwede]

A xenon ballast of 35 W draws approx 3-3,5 A each, total of 6-7 A for a pair. During warmup they need much more, approx 15 A each for 3-5 seconds.

 

[747mopar]

So if you were only running two at a time you would need a 30 amp circuit?

 

[Malicious]

If I may have a slight hijack, How would one wire up the quads to have all 4 on in both low and high? Halogen, not HID. Always liked my quad headlights all on no matter whether hi or low beam...

I should just be to change the plug and splice in the high beam wire from the hi/low light? Nothing too tricky?