Hemi vs. 440

[6PKRTSE]

View attachment 1060562 I give you....ART

Pretty picture....

 

[Imperial One]

"The Hemi turns on when the others turn off" I think Don White was quoted saying that in the Scat Pack advertising for 1970 and it's true. If you aren't topending the competition, then your Hemi has something wrong with it. I understand the Boss 429 breathed like that as well although I doubt it with the standard single 4 barrel.
Honestly in street racing other cars could be competitive if you didn't run the full quarter. When you get into high gear is when a Hemi settles in and gets it all together, it feels like there is no end to it.

View attachment 1060494

I remember the advert you are referring to. I can't remember the whole quote, but it was something like:

"the hemi idles like a coffee can full of rock and you have to lay a wrench on it more frequently, but the hemi turns on when the others turn off"

Somewhere I think I might have this advert. My recollection is that it was Bobby Isaacs. It was - just found this:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=r05-CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=Bobby+Isaac+coffee+can&source=bl&ots=bfNkp_L4gz&sig=ACfU3U2le5OW-3hOoZYpmqfMBYk3Rhsurw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjparR5bzuAhW3EFkFHSGwCao4ChDoATAAegQICBAC#v=onepage&q=Bobby Isaac coffee can&f=false

 

[ACME A12]

Funny thing about them HEMIs, either you want one or you have one

SO true...

 

[Cojohnso1]

They may have been durable, but the Pontiacs were winning. Pontiac took 30 out of 52 Nascar races in 1961, and 22 more in 1962. Ford woke up and said they were ignoring the racing ban in 1963 and started winning, evolving their 406 to a 427 and getting 26 wins which was when Chrysler decided it was time to get serious and build the 426 hemi. Even then, Dodge and Plymouth took just 26 wins compared to Fords 30 for 1964.

Pontiacs did have their time in the sun during early to mid 60s. Mostly Nascar. Not dominant in NHRA. So it depended on your flavor of racing. And that depended alot on what region of the country? There is still regional loyalty to this day? Though Nascar certainly won the advertising battle. Thus fan base.

 

[Imperial One]

I remember the advert you are referring to. I can't remember the whole quote, but it was something like:

"the hemi idles like a coffee can full of rock and you have to lay a wrench on it more frequently, but the hemi turns on when the others turn off"

Somewhere I think I might have this advert. My recollection is that it was Bobby Isaac. It was - just found this:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=r05-CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA25&lpg=PA25&dq=Bobby+Isaac+coffee+can&source=bl&ots=bfNkp_L4gz&sig=ACfU3U2le5OW-3hOoZYpmqfMBYk3Rhsurw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjjparR5bzuAhW3EFkFHSGwCao4ChDoATAAegQICBAC#v=onepage&q=Bobby Isaac coffee can&f=false

Found it: From the "DODGE ANNOUNCES SCAT CITY The '70 Dodge Scat Pack is Road Ready" brochure. Page 6

"Now the Hemi may idle like a coffee can full of rocks, and it may need a wrench applied a little more often than usual. On the other hand, as far as acceleration is concerned, the Hemi turns on where the others shut off".

 

[440 Charger]

Nice .

 

[Runcharger]

Yup: That's the one. I have no idea why guys don't drive their Hemis. I was a Hemi owner for 40 years and always drove them anywhere, raced anyone that wanted to try and had a lot of fun with them. It was nothing for me to drive 500 miles to go to a show either. If you run electronic ignition, get the carbs dialed in and adjust the valves once or twice a year there is nothing that needs to be looked at. The finicky BS comes from the old points distributors and carbs that were never dialed in correctly to begin with. The only other thing "finicky" with them is installing the darn intake manifold with a bit more care than a 6 year old would. This is my last Hemicar. Real one with a 472, auto and 3.23 gears. I remember driving it 200 miles to a drag meet, deciding after I got there that I should race it. Made a couple of trials on the slippery track, tried to feather it downtrack and finally stomped it at the 1/8 and it went sideways. I think it's a Hemi owners duty to uphold the legend.

 

[6PKRTSE]

Nice, I drive mine even at about 5 MPG....

 

[440 Charger]

Very nice do setup more a tad.

 

[F4R/T]

That coronet is sharp! Even cooler with the elephant under the hood... Nice car!!

 

[Cojohnso1]

I WANT A GEN II HEMI! I tried my best to defend the wedge motor. But elephant is just too badass. I have the perfect car for such a transplant. A nice looking and not even close number's matching '69 GTX. Born an automatic. But now 4-speed. Engine is correct period '68 block. But not original. I still wince thinking about pulling a very decent running 440. The good news? It has the Dana and 18 spline trans. So if I can now find that extra $15k I had laying around?

 

[moparedtn]

I WANT A GEN II HEMI! I tried my best to defend the wedge motor. But elephant is just too badass. I have the perfect car for such a transplant. A nice looking and not even close number's matching '69 GTX. Born an automatic. But now 4-speed. Engine is correct period '68 block. But not original. I still wince thinking about pulling a very decent running 440. The good news? It has the Dana and 18 spline trans. So if I can now find that extra $15k I had laying around?

I agree. I'd swap out the 440 in Fred for a 426 in a heartbeat, since it's not the original anyways...

 

[hemi*guy]

I owned a 71 Hemi Challenger, it's gone & I don't miss it... I enjoy driving my cars not sitting in car shows talking about how bad *** my cars are...

Yes Hemi's can be reliable & fast but they also represent allot of $$$$ invested to get there... Considering how few Hemis are really out there you sure hear allot of stories about issues people have getting them right...

The MP/Cummins Crate Hemi was always a kit, it came with most of the pieces but you know it had to come apart and be gone over with a fine tooth comb.. There were blocks with porosity, core shift, machining errors...

In all the years of organizing car cruises I've never had a Hemi car come out for a second drive.... The first drive sure, then you let them know about a second drive & you hear crickets.... Those guys would rather go to a car show & talk about it while me & my buddies are out putting on the miles...

I've had guys in 427 Cobras show up for allot more drives than Hemi cars... I hear about Hemi cars that get driven... But I sure don't see them...

I drive mine as much as my schedule and weather permits, with no power steering a 4 speed and seat belts that lock you in like a straight jacket i'm not taking it on a 500 mile ride! But I do drive my numbers matching Hemi as much as possible.

 

[68BabyBlue]

I drive mine as much as my schedule and weather permits, with no power steering a 4 speed and seat belts that lock you in like a straight jacket i'm not taking it on a 500 mile ride! But I do drive my numbers matching Hemi as much as possible.

Same thing I do with my no ps, no pb, numbers matching track pak 440. That's why I'm considering moving up the final step.

 

[68BabyBlue]

I personally don't think it is a matter of what's better but I guess that depends on the 2nd part of the question which is "which is better for ????. If its stock performance, then I think it can be argued both ways, however if it is overall performance then I believe the Hemi has proven itself capable of making far more power with less work. However, if the question is more random such as which is better to own, the answer then becomes more murky as it is a matter of personal taste. Lastly if its a question of value, well thats a pretty straightforward answer in that a Hemi car will almost always bring more money than a wedge car of the same model and vintage.

I don't think there is a true Mopar guy out there that would not not want to have a Hemi, its the epitome of the brand, a thing of legend and thus the quintessential Mopar thing. I have one for the same reason I have a Viper, because it is or was the "king" at one point. Basically for me it came down to this; I am and always have been a Mopar guy, not to ever own "the legend" would have been a void for me.

Now, the last thing I will say on this is that speaking for myself only, if I had a wedge car that I had grown up with, loved and cherished where basically when I look at it I am seeing an old friend, I would find it very difficult to exchange it just to have a Hemi anything.

It certainly is murky, and gets more so with more information. I didn't really grow up with the wedge car, I was 29 when I bought it, and did it as a hedge against future Mopar appreciation. I really believed in 1983 that they would be worth a ton of money down the road. We all know how that turned out. My daughter was a year old when I bought the car, grew up in it, and learned to drive in the GTX that replaced it. Three decades later, I got the car back (purely by chance, I wasn't looking for it). She drove it once, spent half an hour at a car show with it, then left. She has no interest in it other than what it's worth. Her husband is the same, they are both into '90s stuff, not '60s. Not surprising.

Last year at Carlisle, I met a guy who had owned the identical car when he was a teenager, only difference was the color of the side stripes. Both cars had run at Capitol Raceway in the '70s, he couldn't believe it when I showed him copies of the time cards. He currently owns two hemi cars. We discussed the "one you had" vs. the hemi mystique, and swapped business cards. I know he would cherish the car more than me. He told me to go for the hemi when I found the right car.

 

[hemi*guy]

Same thing I do with my no ps, no pb, numbers matching track pak 440. That's why I'm considering moving up the final step.

Good luck!

 

[69hemibeep]

Mines going out this weekend.

 

[Geetex]

Another possible way to go is to keep both cars, choose which one you want to be a Hemi car, pull the engine and drop in a Hemi, or pull the entire driveline and swap it out, of course, keep the original parts. That way you have a Hemi car, for a lot less money, you're not trying to find storage space for 3 cars, and you can convert it back if you decide you don't like the Hemi and resell the Hemi stuff and recoup your money.

 

[AR67GTX]

That's sort of what I've done - kept my 67 440 GTX with auto, factory air, full power and 3.55 SG. It's motor is old and seen better days - I bore scoped it and was so horrified I didn't even take any pictures - but lights up the tires, doesn't smoke or use oil and cruises around effortlessly. Besides - resale market for first year GTXs sucks - I have twice the money in it I could ever get out of it. But taxes and insurance are cheap so I kept it and went looking for my 66 Hemi with 4 speed and no power. Once I get used to cranking on the wheel fast enough in corners to stay out of the other lane and neighbors yard I should like it just fine.

 

[68BabyBlue]

Another possible way to go is to keep both cars, choose which one you want to be a Hemi car, pull the engine and drop in a Hemi, or pull the entire driveline and swap it out, of course, keep the original parts. That way you have a Hemi car, for a lot less money, you're not trying to find storage space for 3 cars, and you can convert it back if you decide you don't like the Hemi and resell the Hemi stuff and recoup your money.

I have a unique deal with the "devil," my wife of 43 years, who, from the day we met in 1974, has always detested my Mopars, the one exception being the 1960 Chrysler 300F I owned 20 some years ago. She has tolerated, and even supported my passion, with the ground rule I could have only one non daily driving vehicle. I have currently circumvented the process, thanks to a fellow Mopar buddy, whose shop does all the maintenance on my Peterbilt 379. I store the '68 for free with his collection, and when the truck goes in for work, I pull the car out and drive home, wife doesn't have to come get me. I pay my invoices in 7 days in exchange for the freebie storage. Win-win deal for all.

Other deal with the wife is no non numbers cars, no projects, nothing that needs work. She's smart and practical, will tolerate something that will motivate me to keep working (at 67, and not on the car), that she can dump quickly at Mecum when I'm gone. Having the fewest cars possible turns her on, thus the discussion of swapping the two for one hemi.