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HOLLEY CARB TUNING HELP

Landon

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I need some advice getting my Holley 750 DP to work right on my 440/727 auto with stock converter. 3.23:1 gears. Timing is dialed in. Float levels are correct. The motor is near stock besides carb, electronic ignition, headers, mild cam, and windage tray. The car drives fine cruising and accelerating mildly, but when I floor it from a dead stop it has a huge hesitation and does not go. The hesitation is even worse with a 200lb passenger. I don't know if I am very rich or very lean when floored off idle?

My carb:
30cc pumps for primary & secondary
small (white) accelerator cam on primary & secondary
6.5 power valve primary, secondary plugged
78 primary jets, 84 secondary jets
#21 squirter nozzles on primary & secondary

The plugs have a good light brown color to them.

Should I go up or down on my power valve?
Plug my power valve and jet up the primaries?
Increase or decrease the squirt nozzles or cams?

I know a vacuum secondary carb is probably better for my setup, but this is what I have. THANKS!!!
 
An air fuel meter really help in these situations.

how much vacuum at idle?

Have someone stand at your tailpipes and see if it puffs black when you floor it.
 
An air fuel meter really help in these situations.

how much vacuum at idle?

Have someone stand at your tailpipes and see if it puffs black when you floor it.

I have 20" vacuum in gear at idle
 
Perhaps, you should reconsider your decision about the carb TYPE. I had a '71 Dodge Charger 500 and used a Edelbrock (aka "Eddy") Torker II and a Holley 4150 R-3310-1, 780 CFM vacuum secondary carb. IMO, for street use, the best combination will use a VACUUM operated carb. The engine will determine the opening poiht and RATE that the secondary butterfly valves open and begin feeding fuel.
As you noted, your car is relatively stock especially with a stock converter and 3.55 gears and when carrying sn additional 200 pound load, the "bog" or stumble situation is exacerbated. The car is telling you that its over carburetorated. Tuning a double pump carb is relatively easy but time consuming as suggested but the easiest thing to do is update your carb. Double pump carbs are great for strip competition especially with a higher numeric rear gears, perhaps a higher stall converter, and more cam.
Carter AVS/Edelbrock AVS designs are on demand air flow carbs to eliminate the very problem you are encountering. Since the car cruise season is winding down for the year, perhaps you can ask Santa for a Holley vacuum secondary carb for Christmas and fix your problem......... Just my opinion of course.
BOB RENTON
 
Agree with trying a different pump cam. And yes, that is a small squirter. Unhook the secondaries and just deal with the primary side first. Also make sure the accelerator arm is adjusted correctly before you do anything. An A/F meter would help a lot in tuning....
 
try 28 i all ways go for 28 on any carb i work on if that does not help 31 is the ticket for me.
 
Get the Holley pump cam assortment. Get a few larger shooters. #21's are really small. I'd guess starting at about 28 or 30. Maybe up to 35 or 37.
The DP can work, takes tuning effort.
 
Those shooters are TINY! I am no carb guru, and i am having a similar problem with my 850dp. I have the pink cams and a 31 shooter, and i am going to 35s. Your 750dp likely came with 28 in the front and 31 in the secondary. If it is a 4779 it for sure did. That is what i would change first. The accelerator pump has x amount of shot. A small shooter provides less fuel, but over a longer period of time. A big shooter gets more of the available pump shot fuel into the airstream faster, to cover up the hole when the throttle opens. If it stumbles instantly, too little shot. If it responds good, then stumbles, too big a shot, too little shot duration.
 
Power valve could definitely be an issue. Not sure which direction to take you in regarding size. Question: How clean are your metering block airways? Is it possible there’s some interference/ blockages messing with your ability to accelerate?
 
Power valve could definitely be an issue. Not sure which direction to take you in regarding size. Question: How clean are your metering block airways? Is it possible there’s some interference/ blockages messing with your ability to accelerate?

They are clean
 
So I run 750 with vaccum secondaries . My build is mild with 275 comp cam, icon pistons (9.8 comp). headers and rpm performer intake, 3.23 gear and 2500 converter . The primaries system is identical to yours in theory. My set up #72 main jets 5.5 power valve and #31 nozzle. This tuned with wideband and track, is damn near bang on as far as I am concerned. In comparison you are #78 main jet ( 6 sizes bigger ! ) and #21 nozzle ( 10 sizes small) See the potentioal problem here ...... To me it sounds like your mains are way to rich, then you put the loud pedal down and your squirter are way to small to keep up with the transition . Your probably leaning out which is potentially dangerous at WOT.

I personally would switch to a vaccum secondary carb .
 
You could maybe even go a bit bigger with the power valve if you want. DO NOT block it off , this is not how the carb is ment to run .

If you are pulling 20" of vaccum at idle be interested whar you are at cruise . You might be ok with even 8.5 power valve . The higher the number the sooner it will open and give you more fuel. But you need the correct nozzles to keep everything going.

The pump cams themselves are the last thing to do IMO
 
I need some advice getting my Holley 750 DP to work right on my 440/727 auto with stock converter. 3.23:1 gears. Timing is dialed in. Float levels are correct. The motor is near stock besides carb, electronic ignition, headers, mild cam, and windage tray. The car drives fine cruising and accelerating mildly, but when I floor it from a dead stop it has a huge hesitation and does not go. The hesitation is even worse with a 200lb passenger. I don't know if I am very rich or very lean when floored off idle?

My carb:
30cc pumps for primary & secondary
small (white) accelerator cam on primary & secondary
6.5 power valve primary, secondary plugged
78 primary jets, 84 secondary jets
#21 squirter nozzles on primary & secondary

The plugs have a good light brown color to them.

Should I go up or down on my power valve?
Plug my power valve and jet up the primaries?
Increase or decrease the squirt nozzles or cams?

I know a vacuum secondary carb is probably better for my setup, but this is what I have. THANKS!!!
i started having same issue with my twin webers on my slant six , and went up 2 jets sizes on idlle jets and made it 90 % better , sounds like your tiping lean, i spoke with redline carbs guy and was saying they play with the "gas" so much and ya never know what you get at the pump . and that its commong issue
my 2 cents
 
I need some advice getting my Holley 750 DP to work right on my 440/727 auto with stock converter. 3.23:1 gears. Timing is dialed in. Float levels are correct. The motor is near stock besides carb, electronic ignition, headers, mild cam, and windage tray. The car drives fine cruising and accelerating mildly, but when I floor it from a dead stop it has a huge hesitation and does not go. The hesitation is even worse with a 200lb passenger. I don't know if I am very rich or very lean when floored off idle?

My carb:
30cc pumps for primary & secondary
small (white) accelerator cam on primary & secondary
6.5 power valve primary, secondary plugged
78 primary jets, 84 secondary jets
#21 squirter nozzles on primary & secondary

The plugs have a good light brown color to them.

Should I go up or down on my power valve?
Plug my power valve and jet up the primaries?
Increase or decrease the squirt nozzles or cams?

I know a vacuum secondary carb is probably better for my setup, but this is what I have. THANKS!!!

Tell us the history of the carb. How long have you had it? What is the model number? Did you rebuild it? Did you buy it used? What intake manifold?

A stock and mild 440 as you describe will easily handle a 750 DP, and do it well.

The power valve is close enough and not your problem, assuming it is functioning properly. I would not mess with cams yet either.

If you put the right squirters in, and the problem stays the same, I would look for something that is simply wrong (verses not tuned perfectly)

The squirters are too small, and the jets are too big. When things are this odd, it concerns me that other stupid stuff was done to it that you might not detect.
 
I also find it best practice to return the carb to factory spec. when I'm dealing with an unknown.

from holley:

The use of a quality in line fuel filter, such as Holley P/N 162-523 is mandatory as a safeguard against possible flooding, which could result from unfiltered particles becoming lodged between the fuel inlet needle and its seat. This can result in fire if a spark is present or backfire occurs in the engine compartment. Air cleaner filter elements should be blown clean with compressed air at 6,000 miles and replaced at 12,000 miles to assure maximum protection. Now would be the perfect time to upgrade to a Holley Powershot air filter (Holley P/N 120-146). 7. Start the engine and check the fuel lines and inlet fitting for possible leaks. NOTE: The recommended fuel pressure is 5-7 psi. 8. Recheck to assure all existing vacuum hoses are attached properly. Plug any fittings not used. 9. With the engine at operating temperature, set the idle speed to the manufacturer’s specifications 10. If the carburetor is equipped with sight plugs, recheck fuel level with engine idling. 11. The accelerator pump should be adjusted so that the slightest movement of the throttle lever results in actuation of the accelerator pump. The pump override spring adjustment is checked while holding the throttle in the open position and the pump operating lever held in a fully compressed position. The clearance between the adjusting nut and the arm of the pump lever should be .015”. See figure 2 Figure 2—Accelerator Pump Adjustment Procedure 6 12. After making this adjustment, move the throttle lever from a closed position toward open. Any movement at the throttle lever should be noticed at the pump operating lever. This indicates correct tip-in. NOTE: Under no circumstances should the pump override spring be adjusted to permit coil bind (or bottoming). This is sometimes recommended by some “experts” as a means to a quicker delivery rate and increased flow. All that such “adjustments” accomplish is to provide bent accelerator pump actuating levers and ruptured pump diaphragms. Override springs are carefully sized to provide proper delivery pressure without damaging vital carburetor parts by momentarily absorbing pump force and regulating the pressure peaks within the system.

TUNING: Before you begin to tune your carburetor for your particular vehicle, you must get a “feel” for your vehicles performance so that any changes you make (good or bad) will be readily apparent. Be patient and make only one change at a time so only that change can be fully analyzed. This cannot be over emphasized as there are no “short-cuts” to peak performance. Recording each change and the resulting performance increase or decrease will provide you with a handbook of how vehicle performance is affected by individual carburetor adjustments. This may be helpful in the future or on other applications. IDLE MIXTURE NEEDLES Idle mixture needles control the air/fuel mixture at idle. When tuning the idle mixture, you’re actually tuning for the best manifold vacuum. Idle mixture needles are found on the primary metering blocks. If you change one idle mixture needle, you must change the other idle mixture needle by the same amount. Here are the proper steps for setting the idle mixture needles. 1. Attach a vacuum gauge to a manifold vacuum port on the throttle body. 2. Lightly seat the mixture screws by turning clockwise. Now turn them out 1.5 to 2 turns. This will give you a good starting point. 3. Adjust each idle mixture screw (Figures 3 & 4) 1/8 turn at a time, alternating between each screw. Turn them equally, until you achieve the highest possible vacuum reading without adjusting the curb idle speed screw. Turn screws in to lean the mixture. Turn them out to richen the mixture. 4. Now that the idle mixture is set, it may be necessary to go back and reset the idle speed using the curb idle speed screw. 5. If a vacuum gauge is not available, use a tachometer to obtain the highest RPM. Figure 3 Figure 4 7 ACCELERATOR PUMP The accelerator pump system consists of three main components: the pump diaphragm, the pump cam and the pump nozzle. This is the carburetor system that is most responsible for having good, crisp, off-idle throttle response. Its purpose is to inject a certain amount of fuel down the throttle bores when the throttle is opened. By accomplishing this purpose it acts to smooth the transition between the idle and main circuits so that no stumble, hesitation or sluggishness will be evident during this transition phase. NOTE: The old saying “if a little is good, a lot is better” does not apply to the proper tuning of the accelerator pump. Your car’s performance can be just as bad if it receives too much fuel as if it receives too little fuel. Two factors affect the accelerator pump’s delivery: First, The amount of fuel that can be delivered by one accelerator pump stroke. This is determined by the pump’s capacity and the profile of the pump cam. Secondly, the period of time that it will take for this pre-determined amount of fuel to be delivered. This is affected by the pump nozzle size. Pump Nozzle or “Shooter” A larger pump nozzle will allow this fuel to be delivered much sooner than a smaller pump nozzle. If you need more pump shot sooner, then a larger pump nozzle size is required. During acceleration tests, if you notice that the car first hesitates and then picks up, it’s a sure bet that the pump nozzle size should be increased. A backfire (lean condition) on acceleration also calls for a step up in pump nozzle size. Conversely, if off-idle acceleration does not feel crisp or clean, then the pump nozzle size may already be too large. In this case a smaller size is required. Holley accelerator pump nozzles are stamped with a number (Figure 5) which indicates the drilled pump hole size. For example, a pump nozzle stamped “35” is drilled .035". Pump nozzle sizes are available from .025" to .052". Please note that whenever a .040" or larger accelerator pump nozzle is installed the “hollow” pump nozzle screw should also be used. This screw will allow more fuel to flow to the pump nozzle, assuring that the pump nozzle itself will be the limiting restriction in the accelerator pump fuel supply system. NOTE: When changing the pump nozzle it’s best to jump three sizes. For example, if there is currently an off-line hesitation with #28 (.028”) pump nozzle, try a #31 (.031”) pump nozzle. Figure 5: Accelerator pump discharge nozzles are changed by removing a large Phillips hold down screw. NOTE: There is a small gasket under the head of the screw and one between the nozzle casting and the main body. 8 Figure 6: Accelerator pump cams are held in place with this small slotted screw. The pump lever should operate instantly with the slightest throttle rotation when cam is properly installed. Pump Cams Once a pump nozzle size selection has been made the accelerator pump system can be further tailored with the pump cam. Holley offers an assortment of different pump cams, each with uniquely different lift and duration profiles that are available under Holley P/N 20-12. Switching cams will directly affect the movement of the accelerator pump lever and, subsequently, the amount of fuel available at the pump nozzle. Lay out the pump cams side by side and note the profile differences. This little exercise may help to better explain the differences between the cams and their effect on pump action. Installing a pump cam is straightforward (Figure 6). It’s a simple matter of loosening one screw, placing the new pump cam next to the throttle lever and tightening it up. There are two and sometimes three holes in each pump cam, numbered 1, 2 and 3. Placing the screw in position #1 activates the accelerator pump a little early, allowing full use of the pump’s capacity. Generally, vehicles which normally run at lower idle speeds (600 or 700 RPM) find this position more useful because they can have a good pump shot available coming right off this relatively low idle. Positions #2 and #3 delay the pump action, relatively speaking. These two cam positions are good for engines that idle around 1000 RPM and above. Repositioning the cam in this way makes allowance for the extra throttle rotation required to maintain the relatively higher idle setting. Pump arm adjustment and clearance should be checked and verified each and every time the pump cam and/or pump cam position is changed.

JETTING (MAIN JETS): Due to varied applications that a universal performance carburetor will work with, no jets have been included in this kit; however a few tips on jetting are provided to help you understand their purpose. 1. Out of the box jetting is extremely close for most applications. 2. Carburetors are calibrated at 70° at sea level. Decrease the jet size primary and secondary, one number for every 2000 ft. increase in altitude. 3. Holley jets are broached, flowed, and stamped according to flow rate. NEVER drill jets, as this seriously alters flow characteristics. Stamped numbers are reference numbers and DO NOT indicate drill size. 4. In most cases it will be unnecessary to increase jet size more than four numbers greater than out of the box jetting. Exceptions could arise when the carburetor is mounted on a very large volume, plenum-ram manifold. 5. Spark plugs provide the best indication of proper jetting. Consult an ignition manual for proper reading of spark plugs.
POWER VALVES: The number stamped on a power valve, such as 65, indicates the manifold vacuum below which the power valve is operational. In this case, all manifold vacuums below 6.5” Hg, the power valve is operating. Generally a 65 power valve is sufficient for most high performance applications that have a manifold vacuum of 12” Hg or higher. However, some problems can result with radically cammed engines equipped with automatic transmissions. These vehicles often “idle” at 2000 rpm, approx. 6.0” Hg. At this point the main nozzles are starting to feed and richen the mixture (supplied by the power valve) and the engine will probably “load up”. To correct this problem, install a 45 or 35 power valve. If the engine has a manifold vacuum of 12” Hg or less, a good way to determine power valve size is take the manifold vacuum at idle and divide that number by two. The answer is the power valve size. This will provide idling and proper fuel flow under wide open throttle conditions when manifold vacuums seldom rise above 1” Hg. 11 AIR BLEEDS: Experimenting with air bleeds is not recommended. Countless hours of testing on expensive flow stands is required to obtain the proper bleed sizes for a given calibration. It is unlikely that a better bleed combination can be obtained without extensive experience and facilities. JET EXTENSIONS: Jet extension (Holley P/N 122-5000) can be used in conjunction with the secondary main jets to prevent the jets from being uncovered as fuel rushes to the back of the fuel bowl during extreme acceleration. Jet extensions require the use of a notched float. If you do not have a notched float, a notched float with jet extension is available as Holley P/N 116-10
Recommended fuel pressure: 7-1/2 psi maximum 5 psi minimum NOTE: Fuel pressures above 7-1/2 psi can create severe fuel control problems and are not recommended.
 
Yesterday after work I piddled with the car. I changed the primary squirter from 21 to 31, and the secondary squirter from 21 to 35. Swiftly mashing the pedal to half throttle the car reacted much better. Swiftly mashing the pedal to the floor the car felt like it had a flat spot right off idle before accelerating (not a huge hesitation/falling on it's face like before.) I brought the rear squirter down from 35 to 32 and it feels much more crisp. I need to get my neighbor to ride along and see what it does with more of a load, but for now it is much better. I might change the power valve from 6.5 to 8.5 or 9.5 since I have 20" of vacuum at idle.
 
Your main jets are likely too big. The shooters are WAY small. The shooters should be in the 30 range, maybe a bit bigger. Depends on which model number carb you have. A 6.5 power valve in both front & rear should work well. I'd try the 6.5 PV in the rear with a few numbers smaller in the rear main jets.
 
factory spec:

4779 750cfm
Primary Main Jets 75
Secondary Main Jets 76
Power Valve 8.5
Primary Sq. Nozzle .025
Secondary Sq. Nozzle .032

4779 (-1 -2) 750cfm
Primary Main Jets 70
Secondary Main Jets 80
Power Valve 8.5
Primary Sq. Nozzle .028
Secondary Sq. Nozzle .031

4779 (-3) 750cfm
Primary Main Jets 70
Secondary Main Jets 73
Power Valve 6.5
Primary Sq. Nozzle .028
Secondary Sq. Nozzle .031

4779 (-4 -5) 750cfm
Primary Main Jets 70
Secondary Main Jets 80
Power Valve 6.5
Primary Sq. Nozzle .028
Secondary Sq. Nozzle .031

4779 (-6 -7 -8 -9) 750cfm
Primary Main Jets 71
Secondary Main Jets 80
Power Valve 6.5
Primary Sq. Nozzle .028
Secondary Sq. Nozzle .031
 
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