Hughes rocker setup on Trick Flow heads

[pwtjr]

I am in the process of dialing in the rocker arms on a mild 440 build. I am using Trick Flow heads, Hughes 1.6 roller rockers, and Hughes billet hold down kit specifically for the Trick Flow heads.

I have a couple of questions I would like to run buy you all...

• The studs supplied with the hold down kit seem to be a little short. If I screw them in all the way finger tight to the bottom, there is only 4 or 5 threads for the 12 point nut to hang on to once the shaft and meaty hold down are stacked up on there. The directions Hughes provides say to have the stud level with the top of the nut. The way it is now, the stud only goes in about half way through the nut. This would obviously require the stud to be "unscrewed" a bit. The instructions say to just unscrew the stud to get the proper height, then locktite them in there for ease of assembly. Doing this makes me a little paranoid, as there is even less thread engagement into the aluminum heads' rocker stands. I would feel much more comfortable if the stud was longer. How much thread engagement is "safe" for those 3/8 studs (course threads) ? Has anyone ran into this yet? Trick Flow has there own studs for the rocker hold downs that I am going to order from Summit. I am really hoping they are a little longer. If they are the same length I guess I will just send them right back. I assumed the kit from Hughes specific to the Trick Flow heads and billet hold downs (pretty thick) would be the way to go.
• The rocker kit from Hughes comes with an assortment of shims. After mocking things up, it looks like I will have to do some trimming on some of the billet hold downs to get clearances in spec. There may also be a need to put some of the really thin shims in there. This also makes me a bit paranoid... those thinner shims (steel) look like they could get tore up after a while. I am cool with using some of the thicker aluminum spacers supplied in the kit, but those thin little steel shims have me raising my eyebrow. Am I worrying too much or just suffering from paranoia after a recent vacation in Colorado?
• How critical is it to have the roller tip "perfectly centered" on the valve? The instructions say to NOT RUN THE EDGE OF THE ROLLER ON THE VALVE. Well here is the issue, sorta: The roller is .370 wide, and the valve is almost the same at .340, which leaves about .030 wiggle room. The spec for the rockers side to side clearance is 5 to 15 per rocker, or 10 to 30 a pair. Basically they have to be pretty much dead nuts on, or the roller edge will infact run on the top of the valve a little bit. How critical is this?

• Has anyone else used the new Trick Flow heads with the rocker setup and hold downs from Hughes besides me? Thoughts, issues, concerns?

 

[66Satellite47]

Very interesting thread. I also found the Hughes studs shorter than I thought. The response I got was they couldn't account for all head configurations. Mine were EDE RPM's. made them work but sure expected more thread engagement. The Hughes rockers really seem great. My new engine builder did need to modify the spacers for my new Indy heads. Things were fairly close with my original EDE heads, things weren't perfect, but pretty close. Again mine were not perfectly centered, but if the edge of the roller is outside of the edge of the valve tip, you're OK in my opinion, & I'M not at all a professional. Best is to have the valve train as perfect as possible. Lots of time & work.

 

[64 Post]

ARP makes a stud kit for those heads.

And...

there is a big thread on which rockers work best on those heads over in the Race Forum on the 'other' Mopar site.

 

[pwtjr]

Very interesting thread. I also found the Hughes studs shorter than I thought. The response I got was they couldn't account for all head configurations. Mine were EDE RPM's. made them work but sure expected more thread engagement. The Hughes rockers really seem great. My new engine builder did need to modify the spacers for my new Indy heads. Things were fairly close with my original EDE heads, things weren't perfect, but pretty close. Again mine were not perfectly centered, but if the edge of the roller is outside of the edge of the valve tip, you're OK in my opinion, & I'M not at all a professional. Best is to have the valve train as perfect as possible. Lots of time & work.

I plan on calling Hughes and asking him about these studs. I specifically ordered the hold down kit that is for "Trick Flow" heads. A little frustrating to read in the instructions: "You may have to unscrew the studs some to get the height and thread engagement." I will probably just let him know they need to make a change and see what he says. I am hoping to hear him say he will send me some new longer studs, we will see. They arent worth sending back because the hold downs are only like 20 bucks cheaper than the kit with hold downs & studs.

 

[pwtjr]

ARP makes a stud kit for those heads.

And...

there is a big thread on which rockers work best on those heads over in the Race Forum on the 'other' Mopar site.

These look like nice ARP studs, but do not say ARP on them, so they probably are not actually ARP. I wonder if the ones offered by Trick Flow are actually ARP? Do you happen to have a part number for the studs from ARP? I also am wondering if the reason why they are short is because of the beefy hold downs? If I put the stock hold downs on top of the shaft, there is plenty of room to get the nut on there with full thread engagement.
And what is the "other" Mopar site you are referring to? lol

 

[66Satellite47]

Yes, the studs look perfect with a stock type holdown, but with a modified holddowns, they really don't seem long enough. They do have "enough engagement", but seems like could be more.

 

[383man]

Sorry to hear of your problems. I bought these Hughes 1.6 roller tip rockers and holddown kit over 5 years ago and they work perfect on my Indy EZ heads. The tips are dead centered on the valves. I dont run valve lash caps but if you dont you might try them as they will make the valve tip area larger. I agree with you as I would call Hughes. I know the couple of times I dealt with them I had great service. Good luck , Ron

 

[pwtjr]

Hughes does not recommend running lash caps. I think I will be fine after I get this all setup. It just tripped me up a little when the roller and the valve are essentially the same width, thus making it pretty hard to keep the edge of the roller from running ontop of the valve stem, even if it's just a little.
My buddy says I am just being ****. We looked at his Indy heads with Harland Sharps and some of his rollers aren't perfectly aligned. He has zero issues and revs this thing to the moon.
Thanks for the info and taking the time to read through the thread. Much appreciation for all of you guys.

 

[pwtjr]

Yes, the studs look perfect with a stock type holdown, but with a modified holddowns, they really don't seem long enough. They do have "enough engagement", but seems like could be more.

I went ahead and purchased some 2 3/4 inch long ARP studs. The ones in the kit actually measured 2.30". I'm sure they would be fine, but I feel better knowing I can bottom that stud and use all the treads. It was cheap insurance.

 

[dieseldazzle]

How did this work out for you? I have the same heads and rockers but yet to tackle assembly? Also I hear you need a few longer actual head Bolts or studs for the cylinder heads (trick flow) to block fasteners? What gasket did you use ?

 

[pwtjr]

How did this work out for you? I have the same heads and rockers but yet to tackle assembly? Also I hear you need a few longer actual head Bolts or studs for the cylinder heads (trick flow) to block fasteners? What gasket did you use ?

Well I am at a stand still. Currently waiting on cam. Changed direction a bit and ended up going solid roller instead of hydraulic roller. Had a few other issues crop up as well, so I am behind schedule and over budget ! Imagine that....
All the short head bolts will work but the long ones are different than factory length. I just ordered a complete set of ARP's , they say they are for Edelbrock Victor heads.
The rockers look great on there, still need to fine tune the roller positions on a few, not sure if I am going to grind on the hold downs, how much, which ones... uhggg. I must say I am a bit paronoid about using those really thin shims to fine tune. I am going to try and just use the thicker aluminum stuff that came in the Hughes kit along with shaving on the hold downs, also from Hughes.
As far as head gasket, I am using the recommendation in the instructions with the heads and using a FelPro #1009.
I think when it comes time for mock up, I am hoping to end up using a dual taper 7/16 from Trend. Like I said, I am not there yet, we shall see. I will definitely update this post when I finally get this thing assembled.

 

[IQ52]

If you are using the ARP 145-3609 bolt kit, order extra washers. I use the 10 pack ARP 200-8539 washer package. The five long bolts on each head are too long and I had to double up the washers on those bolts.

 

[pwtjr]

How did this work out for you? I have the same heads and rockers but yet to tackle assembly? Also I hear you need a few longer actual head Bolts or studs for the cylinder heads (trick flow) to block fasteners? What gasket did you use ?

Finished up the rocker set up today. I worked my way out from the middle. It took some fiddling, but ended up getting everything looking good and .008" clearance per pair. There are plenty of shims in the Hughes kit to get the job done right. I did not have to remove any material from the hold downs afterall. It just took some patience assembling, disassembling, assembling, etc.
The hold down studs are 2 3/4" ARP's with a thick washer under the 12 point nut. I feel much better using these rather than the shorter ones supplied in the hold down kit.
The only oddball thing I had to do was to grind a little off the end plugs. They were about a thread too long and wouldn't allow my valve covers to slide on. I tightened it up as much as I was comfortable, fearing ballooning out the end of the shafts if I put any more torque on it, but it still needed a little clearancing.
Basically, if you bought the Hughes rocker and billet hold down kits for the Trick Flow heads, you will be very satisfied with the setup when done.

 

[hemiman426]

andy f on forabodiesonly has been doing a ton of work with the new trick flow heads,he would be a good one to talk to