If I have a car that’s a survivor

[dual fours]

Was someone possibly upset with you over a female?

Nope.
I still have the receipt for the new windshield.
This all went down around 44 years ago.
One night we met some friends at a garage and they were wrapping barbwire around baseball bats and also driving big nails through those bat. They said "there is going to be a rumble up at (blank) park with the (blank)''.
So I drive away and I look at Dana and say "want to go up past the Park?''
"what else are we doing?"
So up around the park I drive, it's dark but you could see, trees on both sides of the road and a stone wall on my left maybe 4' tall.
Well this guy steps out from around a tree up to my left and says" Hey man come here", I say "no man".
and slowly keep on driving.

Well the next thing I see is another guy coming out from around a tree on the right with the baseball bat in the swing position in motion.
I say "DANA, BASEBALL BAT, DUCK", and punched it and swerved towards the "attacker".
The windshield in front of Dana spider webbed and the windshield wiper and antenna went flying.
The "attacker" with the bat went flying.
I looked up to the left and then the right and I saw feet and legs in the air outside the passenger window.
I ran/drove like a scalded dog. Baby don't fail me now.
I saw headlights come on as I looked in the rear view mirror.
Yes, I drove great that night, alleys, back streets, this way, that way lights out from the beginning till I felt...well what ever one would feel.
There was one car I recognized and knew the owner, he was dating a girl that my girl friend and I knew, that car was at the park.
A Pontiac for sure, IIRC a Grand Am or a Grand Prick, orange paint, white top, mag wheels and with either Leopard spots or Tiger stripe seat covers. The car kinda reminded you of a cream sickle.

We made it back to "safe" ground and I dropped Dana off at his house.
My parents were out of town that weekend, and I am pissed, hot and planning.

Here is where my life could have taken a wrong turn.
I'd guess about a half hour goes by and I have just finished "customizing" a 12 ga. pump and with pockets stuffed full and holding a box of 25 getting ready to sneak back into the park, the door bell rings and I think Cops.
I peek out and there is Dana with his mom.
I let them in and Dana and his mom started both talking at the same time.
Before they left they got me cooled down and thinking straight.
I was thinking straight and had a plan before they came but was not thinking about my future.
Dana stayed with me and his mom went home.

The next day Dana asked why I planed to go back to the park alone without him.
I told him "it would be dark, if I am the only one there, no friendly's will get in the way, only targets''.
To this day Dana still says he saw someone to his right with a machete and not a hatchet.
He thought he was going to loose his head that night.
Oh and there were black sole marks on the passenger door that were made by a boot.
I will end it here and say that the guys we knew in the garage never went to the park that night.
440 4 speed, bet you are sorry you asked.

 

[440 4 speed]

Nope.
I still have the receipt for the new windshield.
This all went down around 44 years ago.
One night we met some friends at a garage and they were wrapping barbwire around baseball bats and also driving big nails through those bat. They said "there is going to be a rumble up at (blank) park with the (blank)''.
So I drive away and I look at Dana and say "want to go up past the Park?''
"what else are we doing?"
So up around the park I drive, it's dark but you could see, trees on both sides of the road and a stone wall on my left maybe 4' tall.
Well this guy steps out from around a tree up to my left and says" Hey man come here", I say "no man".
and slowly keep on driving.

Well the next thing I see is another guy coming out from around a tree on the right with the baseball bat in the swing position in motion.
I say "DANA, BASEBALL BAT, DUCK", and punched it and swerved towards the "attacker".
The windshield in front of Dana spider webbed and the windshield wiper and antenna went flying.
The "attacker" with the bat went flying.
I looked up to the left and then the right and I saw feet and legs in the air outside the passenger window.
I ran/drove like a scalded dog. Baby don't fail me now.
I saw headlights come on as I looked in the rear view mirror.
Yes, I drove great that night, alleys, back streets, this way, that way lights out from the beginning till I felt...well what ever one would feel.
There was one car I recognized and knew the owner, he was dating a girl that my girl friend and I knew, that car was at the park.
A Pontiac for sure, IIRC a Grand Am or a Grand Prick, orange paint, white top, mag wheels and with either Leopard spots or Tiger stripe seat covers. The car kinda reminded you of a cream sickle.

We made it back to "safe" ground and I dropped Dana off at his house.
My parents were out of town that weekend, and I am pissed, hot and planning.

Here is where my life could have taken a wrong turn.
I'd guess about a half hour goes by and I have just finished "customizing" a 12 ga. pump and with pockets stuffed full and holding a box of 25 getting ready to sneak back into the park, the door bell rings and I think Cops.
I peek out and there is Dana with his mom.
I let them in and Dana and his mom started both talking at the same time.
Before they left they got me cooled down and thinking straight.
I was thinking straight and had a plan before they came but was not thinking about my future.
Dana stayed with me and his mom went home.

The next day Dana asked why I planed to go back to the park alone without him.
I told him "it would be dark, if I am the only one there, no friendly's will get in the way, only targets''.
To this day Dana still says he saw someone to his right with a machete and not a hatchet.
He thought he was going to loose his head that night.
Oh and there were black sole marks on the passenger door that were made by a boot.
I will end it here and say that the guys we knew in the garage never went to the park that night.
440 4 speed, bet you are sorry you asked.

Not sorry at all. Read about things like that through the years, wasn’t sure about them. Glad you have a solid friend.

 

[66ChargerHI-PO]

I like this post because I’m wondering if a couple cars we got are quote on quote, survivors. Because I don’t think so, but my stepdad still insists that they are. Both are big C-body cars. First car is one of our newest additions, a 1967 LL1 Dark Turquoise Fury VIP 2-door. Car is an original G code 383 2 barrel car with a stromberg carburetor and a single snorkel when we first got it, both the carburetor and single snorkel are gone and it has a dual snorkel and an edelbrock Avs on it now. Oh and a Weiland intake on it now too. The whole engine was also repainted to original light turquoise, and the bottom of the hood was repainted in the original color too may I add. The car also used to have a single exhaust on it but now has a TTI dual system. The front grill, headlight bezels, hood ornament, hood “lip” molding, and taillights were all replaced with NOS. Now tell me, is it still a survivor? My opinion is no and that its ruined, but my stepdad still insists on it being one because the dark turquoise paint, the vinyl top, and the interior are still all original.



The second car is a 1970 Fury III 4-door hardtop in FK3 Burnt Orange with only 22,000 miles. The car is a 318 2 barrel with air conditioning and a single exhaust. When my stepdad got it he repainted the engine, replaced the washer bottle with an nos one, replaced hoses, and put on a dual exhaust system. It still had its original pentastar exhaust on it when it got replaced too, I personally still have it even though my stepdad told the exhaust guy to throw it out. The car still has its original carburetor on it although it will likely get replaced soon, but I will save that too. Is this car still considered a survivor? My opinion is also no.

 

[cosgig]

I like this post because I’m wondering if a couple cars we got are quote on quote, survivors. Because I don’t think so, but my stepdad still insists that they are. Both are big C-body cars. First car is one of our newest additions, a 1967 LL1 Dark Turquoise Fury VIP 2-door. Car is an original G code 383 2 barrel car with a stromberg carburetor and a single snorkel when we first got it, both the carburetor and single snorkel are gone and it has a dual snorkel and an edelbrock Avs on it now. Oh and a Weiland intake on it now too. The whole engine was also repainted to original light turquoise, and the bottom of the hood was repainted in the original color too may I add. The car also used to have a single exhaust on it but now has a TTI dual system. The front grill, headlight bezels, hood ornament, hood “lip” molding, and taillights were all replaced with NOS. Now tell me, is it still a survivor? My opinion is no and that its ruined, but my stepdad still insists on it being one because the dark turquoise paint, the vinyl top, and the interior are still all original.



The second car is a 1970 Fury III 4-door hardtop in FK3 Burnt Orange with only 22,000 miles. The car is a 318 2 barrel with air conditioning and a single exhaust. When my stepdad got it he repainted the engine, replaced the washer bottle with an nos one, replaced hoses, and put on a dual exhaust system. It still had its original pentastar exhaust on it when it got replaced too, I personally still have it even though my stepdad told the exhaust guy to throw it out. The car still has its original carburetor on it although it will likely get replaced soon, but I will save that too. Is this car still considered a survivor? My opinion is also no.

My personal opinion….

Things like the exhaust and other “wear” items are allowed to be changed and still retain survivor status. If the first car was mine, I would consider doing things like painting a bare aluminum intake engine color, and finding the correct air cleaner for it, to look the part. Painting the entire engine seems a little excessive in the labor dept, but if you feel the original color of the engine breaks your vision of originality. Remember tho that a freshly painted engine will do that as well.

I don’t see calling these cars survivors is out of line. They are not repainted, have replacement engines or such the like. It’s when a combination of those things gets done that they lost their original flavor. I find myself seeking out less than NOS or repop parts when dealing with the Roadrunner. I wanted same year license plates, and the .license plate guy told me he had a really nice set, I told him I wanted a set that wasn’t as nice, and that’s what I got. I also don’t want to replace chrome items with new parts because they will just stick out, so I polish what I have. It’s actually a tougher job to preserve the integrity of the car versus just buying new repopped or NOS parts, but kind of fun in a way. It’s a different way of thinking, that’s for sure.

 

[desotoman]

This is my survivor everything untouched except for the radio

 

[67 WS23]

This is my survivor everything untouched except for the radio

View attachment 1698142

Wow! Nice Turbo Z, CS. I still have mine, also white, that I bought new in '86. It's not looking as good as yours tho. The garage is reserved for the 67 R/T that I bought from original owner in '84. The Daytona needs a fuel pump at this time, but it has always run well. Last time started was 2 years ago before the pump failed. It's on the list...

 

[Triplegreen500]

My true one-owner survivor:

1991 Daytona C/S AGS "competition package" turbo, bought it new in 91. One of aprx. 150 AGS package cars built and one of 26 with these colors (white with maroon interior). Only non original parts are carpet (mice), and the nose and right fender were painted in '93 when the ebrake failed and it rolled into a park bench. Warranty repair. Well...it has a Shelby valve cover on it and an Alpine stereo, but I have both originals still. Easy swap-back for both. And a 2.5" exhaust replaced the rusted OEM system years ago.

My other "survivor":

I know less about the Charger as I've only owned it for about five years. It is a numbers match engine (vin in the skirt), and all body VINs are there and all jambs match, with all stickers in place. It was painted, once, a while ago - single stage, and faded...and the wrong shade. My speculation? There's a little mud over the driver rear wheel. Somebody tagged something back in the 70s or early 80s, had the dent fixed (original quarter), they tried repeatedly to match the paint, kept missing (there are eight or ten paint fingerprints on the driver door jamb, different shades, as they were trying to find a match)...and said "screw it" and shot the whole car. They even taped most of the chrome and stainless first It's more blue than FF4, which is more of a lime gold. But all jambs, the trunk, and under the hood, are still original paint.

There is a sticker on the fan shroud for a transmission shop, with an old-school phone number format, so I assume the trans was either serviced or rebuilt at some point back in the day. The a/c condenser is not original, but it is an old replacement based on oxidation and surface wear.

The original owners are dead. I got it from the guy who bought it from their estate and had it about six months. While he had it, he replaced the fuel tank, brakes, tires, hoses, battery - maintenance stuff. Got it running again. Someone put a dual exhaust on it at some point with dronemaster mufflers - I assume the 2nd owner.

I bought it running but needing attention. I pulled the orange MP valve covers and reinstalled the unrestored originals. Repainted the orange air cleaner a proper matte black. Removed the Dixie air horns. Rebuilt the original 2bbl carb. I put in HID low beams and LED high beams. LED dash lights. Wet sanded and buffed the paint too many times to count. My knee went through the driver's rear floor when I was deep cleaning it, so I had a buddy's body shop install AMD pans from the pedals to the back seat on the driver's side. Passenger side is rock solid. And a winter or two ago, I rebuilt the front end - bushings, adjustable rods, thicker torsion bars. Last spring I replaced the fuel sending unit. It still needs a trunk pan.

Car as it sits matches the build sheet and factory invoice (I have all the paperwork), except the vinyl top. Original order form shows vinyl; build sheet is steel roof. I presume the dealer got this car sooner than the ordered one, and installed the top for the customer prior to delivery. It is the correct age and wear to be considered "original dealer installed". The trim is different, and the Charger scripts are too high and too far back...but to me it's character, and part of its unique story.

I consider the car a "survivor". It is unrestored, but it has been maintained in such a way as to keep it safe, functional, and usable. Sheetmetal is all original, it just has an "era-correct" repair repaint. Original bumpers with "original" dings and pits (I think someone repainted the grille silver areas - probably the 2nd owner - and the rear panel is black like a '69 but that paint looks older, like "when the rest was painted" older). True 1970 Maryland plates. I had to add an OEM Chrysler (via Carlisle) front tag bracket. Windows are original. Interior, original. Options, original. The floor pans...it's a judgement call, but I still consider the car to be "original sheetmetal". If I ever sell it, I'll be honest about the floors, but for driver purposes I consider it, as I said, a "survivor".

Survivor: Something that has been used, and repaired/maintained as needed to keep it on the road safely. Might not be all original due to maintenance items, but no major restoration or cosmetic work (no salvage or rebuilt title).

Time capsule: completely untouched from day one. Few or zero miles. Original filters. Tires. Belts. Hoses. Fluids. Completely untouched cosmetics - paint, body, chrome, glass, interior. No maintenance items due to the zero miles. If it doesn't live (or belong) in a museum...it isn't a "time capsule".

 

[Richard Cranium]

the Charger scripts are too high and too far back...but to me it's character, and part of its unique story.

That's odd that they didn't use the original holes, which makes one wonder how they got the old ones off because they are held on with nuts on the inside of the sail panels. I'm guessing that they broke them off because it's a fair amount of work to get to the retaining nuts. If you were to take out the back seat, package tray & pull the headliner back, I'd be willing to bet that you'll find broken studs with the nuts attached. The replacement ones must be held in with push in stud retainers.

 

[Triplegreen500]

That's odd that they didn't use the original holes, which makes one wonder how they got the old ones off because they are held on with nuts on the inside of the sail panels. I'm guessing that they broke them off because it's a fair amount of work to get to the retaining nuts. If you were to take out the back seat, package tray & pull the headliner back, I'd be willing to bet that you'll find broken studs with the nuts attached. The replacement ones must be held in with push in stud retainers.

View attachment 1810971

I'm sure.

And I know where they belong; mine aren't there.

Keep in mind, this was just "another car" when lot jockey #12 did this pain in the *** accessory job for Salesman X so he could make his quota for the month. They didn't care. "Dave's Dart is next in line waiting for an oil change so he and his wife can go on vacation, so quit bitching. Don't mess with the interior because that'll take too long, just grab a drill and a couple new badges and get it done already."

At least they're in about the same place as each other....

 

[68BabyBlue]

I consider the car a "survivor". It is unrestored, but it has been maintained in such a way as to keep it safe, functional, and usable. Sheetmetal is all original, it just has an "era-correct" repair repaint. Original bumpers with "original" dings and pits (I think someone repainted the grille silver areas - probably the 2nd owner - and the rear panel is black like a '69 but that paint looks older, like "when the rest was painted" older). True 1970 Maryland plates. I had to add an OEM Chrysler (via Carlisle) front tag bracket. Windows are original. Interior, original. Options, original. The floor pans...it's a judgement call, but I still consider the car to be "original sheetmetal". If I ever sell it, I'll be honest about the floors, but for driver purposes I consider it, as I said, a "survivor".

Survivor: Something that has been used, and repaired/maintained as needed to keep it on the road safely. Might not be all original due to maintenance items, but no major restoration or cosmetic work (no salvage or rebuilt title).

Time capsule: completely untouched from day one. Few or zero miles. Original filters. Tires. Belts. Hoses. Fluids. Completely untouched cosmetics - paint, body, chrome, glass, interior. No maintenance items due to the zero miles. If it doesn't live (or belong) in a museum...it isn't a "time capsule".

I like this definition. Key point being a car that was maintained to a level that it was never taken off the road. My current one defies some standard definitions. It's been registered its entire life, freshened twice, rotisserie restoration the second time, but it was still a rust free, licensed weekend driver at that stage, with 56,000 miles.

Last restoration is now 20 years old. NOS sheet metal replaced Pennsylvania rusted stuff before the dealer sold it in 1983, so "dealer installed." So it's never been a "barn find," nor a "time capsule," just a weird car that got way better than average maintenance along the way.

 

[autoxcuda]

i think there’s a range to the term survivor. There are high level ones and low level ones.

The term is for a condition that is something odd, exclusive, out of ordinary. It’s not T-ball where everyone gets a trophy for showing up.

Cars make a case for themselves.

The more items changed, the lower level of survivor. And at some point you should not use the term.

Repainted sections, engine repainted, engine compartment repainted, sheet metal changed, not stock items added. Not one thing removes it from category. But multiple things do.

Full exterior repaints immediately put something at lowest end. More items take it out of the category.

 

[Hey-O]

If my car survives me, it's a survivor. LOL. Survivors are great, but that's a lot of years since being built. A true survivor wears what God gave it the day it was born, period. New paint on a car is no longer a true survivor. A survivor, but.

If you drive it as much as I do mine, it's days for needing attention are coming. Nothing last forever.

 

[Under Pressure]

Curious, when the first person coined them a survivor, how many years old did they require them to be?

 

[Triplegreen500]

Curious, when the first person coined them a survivor, how many years old did they require them to be?

Nothing to do with age in years, or miles. Just amounts of original content - as an absolute, and in comparison to similar vehicles (vintage/model/brand).

The difference is in maintaining a vehicle for regular use, versus re-making ("restoration") a vehicle to make it "new" again. So, age really only comes into play when they're old enough the owner has to decide "do I leave it alone and keep using it like it is? or do I take it all apart and start over again?"

 

[Richard Cranium]

If my car survives me, it's a survivor. LOL. Survivors are great, but that's a lot of years since being built. A true survivor wears what God gave it the day it was born, period. New paint on a car is no longer a true survivor. A survivor, but.

If you drive it as much as I do mine, it's days for needing attention are coming. Nothing last forever.

With original plug wires, air filter & three original tires, my 66 Hemi Belvedere is probably the most original survivor car I’ve ever had.

 

[Hey-O]

With original plug wires, air filter & three original tires, my 66 Hemi Belvedere is probably the most original survivor car I’ve ever had.

I get that, but your charger is pretty nice, in my opinion.

 

[autoxcuda]

With original plug wires, air filter & three original tires, my 66 Hemi Belvedere is probably the most original survivor car I’ve ever had.

I have original tubes and seals, but the cables themselves were replaced starting in 70. Everything is logged.

I have one original blue streak tire.

Past owner maintained it quite a bit. When he drove it most: 69 to about 73, he had tuneups every 3- 4 months.

Mine has 100% original paint and interior both in very nice shape. But original 66 mufflers replaced in early 2000’s, front section of headpipes changed, motor repainted.
I don’t consider it a high level survivor

 

[DynaBro]

If I replaced the front bumper, the rear quarter panel and the front fender with the same vintage part, would it still be considered a survivor?

My car has one respray, outside surfaces only, and it doesn't qualify. It even has the original trunk sticker and spare tire scribbles from the dealership. Matching numbers, although the motor has to be rebuilt. That's about as close as you are ever going to get and not be a survivor.

 

[Mopar Hunter]

My car has one respray, outside surfaces only, and it doesn't qualify. It even has the original trunk sticker and spare tire scribbles from the dealership. Matching numbers, although the motor has to be rebuilt. That's about as close as you are ever going to get and not be a survivor.

This pretty much describes mine, except the previous owner used Krylon paint.