I'm losin' it...

[BDF6]

Good luck Mr. beanhead, I'm rooting for you!

 

[beanhead]

is the pcv hose collapsing?

I hope not! I recently replaced it, using the sturdy stuff..

 

[miller]

dipstick was pushed up out of the tube an inch or two.

Just that is a sign, the crankcase isn't getting vented...or not enough.

 

[Ron H]

Odd thing I found on my rebuilt engine (I have around 1000-1200 miles on it now) was a collapsed pvc hose after running it on a long ride. I just replaced the hose with a firmer one, replaced the oil cap, and cleaned the valve. Valve looked to be fine though as is was. I've yet to drive it as doing some other stuff on it. The shop said no break in was necessary with the same quote posted above 'drive it like you stole it'. It's a solid lifter set up now with mild cam and being old school I drove it more like I didn't steal it. So far so good (hoping the pvc hose thing is resolved). Initially had serious overheating issues and coolant consumption the shop said wasn't a problem!! Ahh what? The temp gauge maxed out and temp double checked with my laser gauge. Well they got their friggin money and would not recommend them as 'reputable' as they are. Did several things to confront this with 7 blade fan, shroud install, water-wetter, top seal, reduced coolant ratio, and going to a lighter weight high-zinc oil. I have some old school friends who have rebuilt motors and worked as mechanics and all of them said be mindful of engine break in for 1st 500 miles at a minimum.

 

[miller]

Yep. No matter how you look at it, still new metal against metal, rubbing against themselves. Need a little time to seat in.

Off the wall, but when I worked at a Harley dealer, some guy came in. Had a wad of money, and paid cash for a new Sportster, and took it home on a trailer. He had been told all about the engine break-in.
A few days later, he brought the damn thing back, saying the engine had burned up, wanted it replaced. Then...he described, how he 'broke' the motor in. Motorcycle up on a quick stand (rear tire off the ground), fired it up, cranked the throttle up, 'til the speedo was reading 55 mph, and waited until there was 100 miles on the odometer!
And he couldn't understand why the engine burned up. He was told to go to hell!

 

[Challenger340]

If NOT using a Diamond Honing Head, and still using "Stones"
* Finish Bores to Size using 220 Grit @ 40 Load
* 4 strokes using 280g @ 20 Load
* 4 strokes using 400g @ just a tad under 20 Load
* 3-4 strokes plateau brushes NO LOAD (just floating in the Bores)

Doesn't matter what or whose name is on the Box of Piston Rings you open these days.... they are ALL Hastings Oil Rings !
No matter from Total Seal to Diamond.... they are ALL Hastings Oil Rings !
and Hastings to save money went to a NON Honed exterior Oil Ring finish about 6-7 Years ago I think ? (Saving an extra operation)
strictly Anode/Cathode "stick the Moly to the Oil Ring" and forget it Manufacturing system that requires rougher Bore Finishes to "Lap" therm selves in during run-in far moreso than the old exterior Honed SSOU-50 Federal Mogul Oil Rings that could break-in using a true mirror finish bore prep, and quickly became $$ obsolete to produce vrs the Hastings.

If there was insufficient cylinder bore wall "roughness" there to wear in the Hastings Oil Rings initially ?
there never will be, and no type of Oil nor driving style will fix that and you are screwed without a proper rehone.

 

[beanhead]

Welp.... had some spare time this afternoon, so I took the car for a cruise got it nice and warm and did a compression test when I got it home. 165 until I got around to the last three, they were more like 161 but all in all just fine considering the engine was cooling off by then. Just for the heck of it I shot 6 or 7 cc's of oil into one of the cylinders, and it tested closer to 180. I know that typically that means worn rings, but on an engine this new is that just due the fact that they're not completely seated? I hope? Or do I need to be concerned....

 

[5.7 hemi]

Geez, your within 3% on all cylinders. I’d say that’s pretty damn good. Also number seems alright given the compression ratio.

 

[beanhead]

Geez, your within 3% on all cylinders. I’d say that’s pretty damn good. Also number seems alright given the compression ratio.

That's good news, I was just wondering about the increase with the oil squirt...I think this engine's gotten in my head!

 

[Kern Dog]

I think that you will always see some PSI increase with the addition of the oil prior to a compression test.

 

[miller]

Pat that thing on it's butt for a little while, treat it right, and it will give you what it's got.
There's too many, that fool with building engines, expecting 'magic'. Ain't happening. Parts and pieces, all it is, trying to work together. An engine is only as good as it's put together, and then treated. Mis-treat it, then come back wanting to know why the damn thing failed???

Yeah, maybe a little sappy...it's okay. I've spent my life putting engines, of one type or the other, together. So, I'm me....

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Mr. Beanhead is your 440 all stock? I have had engines where the crankcase pressure was not what was shoving the dipstick out. It was more due to oil windage from the crankshaft stirring the oil enough to were it would hydraulicly shove the dipstick out. On BB mopar it seems like we ran into it with a stock oil pan and no windage tray. There is usually some crankcase pressure on all engines. But too much oil in your engine, bearing clearances, shallow stock oil pans, HV oil pumps, the dipstick itself, and engine rpms can all cause the engine oil to actually push a dipstick out..
The engines I have been around that were so wore out that they could blow a dipstick out didn't have the cylinder pressure your running. But, anything is possible, but my guess is rings are already broke in or if it is causing all this they never will brake in. I have seen more slow brake in problems from machine shops not using honing plates and out of round cylinder bores then ring problems. If it's out of round it may take a long, long time to wear everything in.

Your valve cover gaskets may not have been pushed out, but were not sealing up and slipped out...a BB mopar valve cover can be challenging to get sealed up unless you have a nice set of Aluminum ones.

 

[beanhead]

Mr. Beanhead is your 440 all stock? I have had engines where the crankcase pressure was not what was shoving the dipstick out. It was more due to oil windage from the crankshaft stirring the oil enough to were it would hydraulicly shove the dipstick out. On BB mopar it seems like we ran into it with a stock oil pan and no windage tray. There is usually some crankcase pressure on all engines. But too much oil in your engine, bearing clearances, shallow stock oil pans, HV oil pumps, the dipstick itself, and engine rpms can all cause the engine oil to actually push a dipstick out..
The engines I have been around that were so wore out that they could blow a dipstick out didn't have the cylinder pressure your running. But, anything is possible, but my guess is rings are already broke in or if it is causing all this they never will brake in. I have seen more slow brake in problems from machine shops not using honing plates and out of round cylinder bores then ring problems. If it's out of round it may take a long, long time to wear everything in.

Your valve cover gaskets may not have been pushed out, but were not sealing up and slipped out...a BB mopar valve cover can be challenging to get sealed up unless you have a nice set of Aluminum ones.

Thanks for replying. The engine is not stock, and I use a windage tray. The builder did explain the exact number he bored to, to get all the cylinders round and straight. It had previously been poorly machined..For now I'm driving it and not slamming my foot to the floor (that's the only time it's passed oil). I'm giving it a couple hundred miles, and if it doesn't clear up after that I'll address it further..

 

[Curiousyellow71]

What oil pan are you running? I have had the dipstick pop up with and w/o a windage tray and it always happened after high rpms with a shallow oil pan just like you are describing. I have never had any trouble when running a deeper oil pan. Blowby and noticing blue smoke or oil consumption would usually come along with rings failing. It doesn't sound like you have any of those symptoms....unless I missed something. Lol

 

[beanhead]

What oil pan are you running? I have had the dipstick pop up with and w/o a windage tray and it always happened after high rpms with a shallow oil pan just like you are describing. I have never had any trouble when running a deeper oil pan. Blowby and noticing blue smoke or oil consumption would usually come along with rings failing. It doesn't sound like you have any of those symptoms....unless I missed something. Lol

You're correct about no smoke or loss of oil...and yeah I run a milodon stock type pan. After high rpm, just oil on top and back of the engine. Enough for a small puddle after it sits a bit. Fine any other time..

 

[PRHeads]

After high rpm, just oil on top and back of the engine. Enough for a small puddle after it sits a bit. Fine any other time..

Is the valve cover with the pcv able to use another breather instead?

What type of breather in currently being used?

I’ve seen it numerous times where the breather itself gets saturated with oil, then when you go wail on the motor a bit, there’s a little mess under the hood.

Clean out the breather, problem goes away....... until the breather is saturated again.
I usually see this on motors where the baffle in the valve cover isn’t doing a good enough job of keeping the oil mist out of the breather.

 

[beanhead]

Is the valve cover with the pcv able to use another breather instead?

What type of breather in currently being used?

I’ve seen it numerous times where the breather itself gets saturated with out, then when you go sail on the motor a bit, there’s a little mess under the hood.

Clean out the breather, problem goes away....... until the breather is saturated again.
I usually see this on motors where the baffle in the valve cover isn’t doing a good enough job of keeping the oil mist out of the breather.

I use a breather that looks like a little oil filter (from 440 source) on the cover opposite the PCV, and it is clear and free-flowing, I can blow through it easily.
I was pondering trying another one, since it only got oil at full throttle (little to no vacuum and the PCV isn't drawing anyway).

 

[Wietse]

So why so many people recommend break-in for so many miles, no high rpm, etc, etc.
In the meanwhile, any rebuild motor in a shop that goes on a dyno gets run in for 20 minutes for the cam.
Right after that many pulls to the redline are done to determine hp and tq.
So being so protective to a rebuild engine raises questions in both directions.
I read an article once where it is mentioned that the cross pattern is there to make sure the rings wear in quickly, but this is only used to it best extend by running the engine in hard to get the high pressure to force the rings more tight against the cylinder wall for wear in. Because after several miles the roughness of the cylinder wall that supposed to assist the wear in is gone and if by then you rings are not worn in properly, they never will.
Which caused pressure loss (more blow-by) and higher oil consumption.
Feels kind of scary to believe the above but it makes sense to me.

 

[BDF6]

Any changes worth speaking of Mr. beanhead?

 

[beanhead]

Any changes worth speaking of Mr. beanhead?

No new developments on the oil issue...I've been putting miles on but no hard full-throttle blasts(so no oil leakage). Been concentrating more on getting things working with the timing it seems to want, and fiddling with ported vacuum advance. At the moment it's got good response off-idle with the distributor curved for 31 initial, 37 total, and about 10" vacuum. The engine cruises between 15"-20" of vacuum depending on speed so the full amount of advance is never realized as the can adds timing over about a 10" vacuum range. Any throttle drops it to under 10", which is good for no pings under any acceleration. Vacuum advance is adjusted to start pulling in at about 13", makes the total advance at cruise around 48-50 degrees. It might like a little more in which case I'll turn the allen screw on the can in another 1/2 or full turn. I just don't want it starting too early and causing any pinging when I give it more throttle. (All this is verified with a vacuum tester, and gauge connected while driving.)