Intermittent Starter Problem, Need Help.

[TxDon]

I'm having an intermittent starting problem on my 67 GTX. It had been turning over and starting great then one morning I turned the key and nothing - no click, nothing at all. I first assumed it was an electrical issue, checked the battery, looked for loose wires, corrosion, etc. - everything was ok. Then I remembered something like this happening on a car I had many years ago with a stick shift. I put the trans in gear and rocked the car back and forth a little - turned the key and it spun and started like normal! My concern is now it has happened two more times so I don't know if the car will turn over or not. All three times rocking it in gear fixed it. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so what did you do to fix it? I appreciate any help you can offer.

 

[badlite]

Sounds like neutral switch is bad or needs adjusted.

 

[TxDon]

This car is a 4-speed, I didn't think they used a neutral switch but...

Latest issue today: the car started fine, I took it out for a ride then came back and parked it in the driveway. I even tried starting after I shut it off and it started fine. It sat there for about 6 hours, then when I tried to start it, nothing. It was parked on a downgrade so I let it creep and let out the clutch a couple of times but it still wouldn't turn over. I hooked a remote starter button to the relay, when I hit the button the engine turned over, then clicked. After that I turned the key and it started up like normal. Any other thoughts?

 

[440roadrunner]

You know how to jumper across the starter relay? Use a screwdriver, etc, across the two large bare terminals. If it cranks this way and not with the key, it's either the relay, or "in that circuit.

Since this is a stick and before the clutch safety switches (1970) You should have a relay with only ONE "push on" terminal. This is the start wire from the key.

Might be ignition switch going bad

Bad connection where start wire goes through bulkhead terminal

Bad connection with start wire at relay

(Check right at relay with a test lamp while twisting the ignition switch)

Relay might not be grounded

Might be bad relay

==================================

ADDITIONAL. Listen CAREFULLY for starter relay click. If you hear that, might be bad wire down to starter solenoid, or bad starter

If NO click, it's above the dotted line.

 

[Dennis H]

Bulkhead connector if there is one. Remove, spray to excess with electrical cleaner. Remove, clean and re-install battery fables. Easy stuff first.

 

[TxDon]

You know how to jumper across the starter relay? Use a screwdriver, etc, across the two large bare terminals. If it cranks this way and not with the key, it's either the relay, or "in that circuit.

Since this is a stick and before the clutch safety switches (1970) You should have a relay with only ONE "push on" terminal. This is the start wire from the key.

Might be ignition switch going bad

Bad connection where start wire goes through bulkhead terminal

Bad connection with start wire at relay

(Check right at relay with a test lamp while twisting the ignition switch)

Relay might not be grounded

Might be bad relay

==================================

ADDITIONAL. Listen CAREFULLY for starter relay click. If you hear that, might be bad wire down to starter solenoid, or bad starter

If NO click, it's above the dotted line.

Thanks 440. There is no click when this happens but when I put the remote button on the relay it turned, then clicked. My relay has two push-on terminals but the one for the neutral start switch is just grounded to the firewall with a short wire. I'll try jumping the starter terminals and also check all the relay connections.

- - - Updated - - -

Bulkhead connector if there is one. Remove, spray to excess with electrical cleaner. Remove, clean and re-install battery fables. Easy stuff first.

Thanks Dennis. I'm now going to check all the connections but save the bulkhead connector for last, I've heard they can be a problem...

 

[440roadrunner]

Make certain that jumper wire on the relay is actually grounded. Start there at the two "push on" connectors. Should have 12V "in start" at the one, and zero on the ground end. Starting to sound like a bad relay.

But on the other hand IT SHOULD CRANK when you jumper the two large bare terminals of the relay.

"If you can" put your switch on the two starter terminals instead of the relay

AND DON'T trust the push-button switch. Hook the push -button to the relay "bare terminals" If it won't crank, jumper them with a screwdriver.

 

[TxDon]

OK here is the latest. (Long) One thing I forgot to mention before is that this car has a pushbutton security switch under the dash added by the PO. You have to push the button and hold it while you turn the key to start. I have learned I definitely have the wrong relay onthis car, it is the type for the automatic trans which is why I have the shortwire to ground, although I don't think this is a problem.

With the key off Ijumped the two exposed terminals with a solid jumper and the starter turnsstrong, did this three times to be sure. This would appear to indicate that the battery, starter, andmain cables between them work properly.

Next I removed the push-on start terminal that goes into the bulkhead connector, attached my voltmeter, and had my wife turn the key to start WITHOUT pushing the security button - I got a zero reading. Did that also three times with same result. Then we did the same test WITH her pushing the security button and I got a reading of 11 volts. From this it would appear that the security switch is tapped into the start wire. I pushed the terminal back onto the relay and tried the key, the engine turned over fine with security button held in. So it looks like my problem is most likely an intermittent open in the start wire circuit from the ignition switch to the relay caused by:

• The security switch
• The ignition switch
• The bulkhead connector
• The relay

I'm going to replace the relay first since it is the easiest repair and I want the correct type in there anyway. If I still have trouble I'll probably remove the security switch next although I have no idea how it is wired. What is involved in removing the ignition switch? Any other thoughts?

 

[440roadrunner]

Frankly, without looking at your security switch, I would suspect either

1....A poor connection at your short ground wire

2...Poor quality security switch or related connections to it.

It COULD be the relay, but frankly, those don't fail often. That one looks pretty clean.

"Other than looks" there is really nothing wrong with that 4 terminal relay.

So far as the security switch that might be "false thinking." These cars are so easy to jumper the starter, that it might not take someone long to figure out, and they might not be trying to steal it with the key, anyhow.

Some alternative thoughts

You have an electric only fuel pump? Put an unobtrusive switch in the pump relay trigger. No pump--no run, at least not for long with a carb.

you have a tach? No brainer. Put a good switch in the tach wire to ground. You ground the tach wire, no run. This will not work on an MSD, it must be an ignition where the tach is hooked to the coil NEG.

Otherwise figure a way to lock the hood.

 

[chignikred]

Change the starter. You can have a bad solenoid, and / or a bad ie shorted field.

 

[440roadrunner]

Change the starter. You can have a bad solenoid, and / or a bad ie shorted field.

He should be able to hear the starter relay click, if he listens. Of course it could be a bad relay

Jumpering across the starter relay should define the problem, although it STILL could be the wire down to the starter solenoid.

Those originally were molded in with the battery cable. I've seen them break, internally, in the molded connector

...........like this one.........

 

[Dennis H]

I replaced the ignition switch for no reason. Found to be bulkhead connector. Remove each of the three banks VERY carefully and spray with electrical contact cleaner till it runs clear. Empty the can if needed. Reinstall.

 

[TxDon]

Frankly, without looking at your security switch, I would suspect either

1....A poor connection at your short ground wire

2...Poor quality security switch or related connections to it.

It COULD be the relay, but frankly, those don't fail often. That one looks pretty clean.

"Other than looks" there is really nothing wrong with that 4 terminal relay.

So far as the security switch that might be "false thinking." These cars are so easy to jumper the starter, that it might not take someone long to figure out, and they might not be trying to steal it with the key, anyhow.

Some alternative thoughts

You have an electric only fuel pump? Put an unobtrusive switch in the pump relay trigger. No pump--no run, at least not for long with a carb.

you have a tach? No brainer. Put a good switch in the tach wire to ground. You ground the tach wire, no run. This will not work on an MSD, it must be an ignition where the tach is hooked to the coil NEG.

Otherwise figure a way to lock the hood.

I've been busy with one of my other cars so haven't done anything yet on this except order a new relay. I totally agree about the silliness of the security switch, it was there when I bought the car and I will probably get rid of it mostly to be sure the wiring is not screwed up. There is obviously a lot of possibilities here but I want to attack them one at a time.

 

[texas69bee]

Check the brushes on the starter as well.

 

[TxDon]

Well its taken awhile to deal with this, I had to work on one of my other cars (1963 Oldsmobile Starfire) so the GTX went under cover. I did buy and install a new solenoid, the correct type for a 4-speed car. Since then I have driven it a handful of times and have not had any problems but my fingers are still crossed...

 

[dvw]

I believe you have an internal starter issue. You say you rock the car. My bet is the flywheel turns hitting the starter bendix which is tuck out towards the flywheel. Easy enough to see by removing the shield and looking up.
Doug