Is Your B-Body Mopar Matching Numbers?

[ckessel]

To each his own. Whatever floats your boat. My car is numbers matching, as in the VIN matches the registration and thats all I care about.

 

[sputnik 440]

I read an article just three days ago about numbers matching. From what it said, from 67 back, there were no numbers on the motor or trans that matched the numbers on the body panels. If you wanted to know if your 440 was original you could not state it was for sure. Best you could do is to see if the date code on the block was before the date the car went down the line and then it is said that Mopar would make blocks ahead of time with a future date on it and on occasion an engine with that date would make it to a line ahead of the assembly date. (sound suspicious but that is what the writer said that Chrysler factory told him). So, my vote would be that matching numbers is beneficial in selling a Mopar post '67, but from there back, the only numbers that are supposed to match are the body numbers. Can anyone support this, or, refute it? Not sure if the trans matched the engine, I doubt it if the match between the engine and body is not there. I'll see if I can find that article.

 

[wagonman]

I read an article just three days ago about numbers matching. From what it said, from 67 back, there were no numbers on the motor or trans that matched the numbers on the body panels. If you wanted to know if your 440 was original you could not state it was for sure. Best you could do is to see if the date code on the block was before the date the car went down the line and then it is said that Mopar would make blocks ahead of time with a future date on it and on occasion an engine with that date would make it to a line ahead of the assembly date. (sound suspicious but that is what the writer said that Chrysler factory told him). So, my vote would be that matching numbers is beneficial in selling a Mopar post '67, but from there back, the only numbers that are supposed to match are the body numbers. Can anyone support this, or, refute it? Not sure if the trans matched the engine, I doubt it if the match between the engine and body is not there. I'll see if I can find that article.

I am no expert but from what I have read it was 69 and up for the VIN on the block ect. Maybe some late production 68 Bs had it, just to add to the confusion. Mine is not only Non NOM but a 440 as well. For me not driving it = no fun. If I had my dream car 70 Hemi Charger it would get lots of miles and rear tires. When I hit the LOTTO of course. Staying Positive...

 

[oldbee]

LOL, from a lot of questions I get asked, the most prevalent is "does it have a 440?". So I explain, yes, but it wasn't supposed to. The 440 has its own mystique; everyone knows a Hemi when they see it.

 

[Wietse]

When i bought the car it supposed to be not numbers matching.
But after digging up the numbers on the engine and chassis i found they were matching.
Maybe in the US it might be less important but matching numbers here in Europe are getting a standard now i think.
Having the right numbers makes a hell of a difference in sales price/value of the car.

Then again, where does "matching numbers" end, i've heard the stories of people checking radiators, wiper motors, steering pumps and brake booster/cylinders etc. etc. also should be correct.

I think if the car is in good shape and you are enjoying it is more important then matching numbers.

 

[roadrunnerh]

I read an article just three days ago about numbers matching. From what it said, from 67 back, there were no numbers on the motor or trans that matched the numbers on the body panels. If you wanted to know if your 440 was original you could not state it was for sure. Best you could do is to see if the date code on the block was before the date the car went down the line and then it is said that Mopar would make blocks ahead of time with a future date on it and on occasion an engine with that date would make it to a line ahead of the assembly date. (sound suspicious but that is what the writer said that Chrysler factory told him). So, my vote would be that matching numbers is beneficial in selling a Mopar post '67, but from there back, the only numbers that are supposed to match are the body numbers. Can anyone support this, or, refute it? Not sure if the trans matched the engine, I doubt it if the match between the engine and body is not there. I'll see if I can find that article.

Absolutely not true. The last 6 digits of the VIN which are the sequence (serial) number are on the block at least as far back as 1966 (probably much earlier). I'm not certain about the body panels, but the engine can be verified that it matched the VIN on the car.

On my 1968 Road Runner with November 1967 build date, the last 6 digits of my VIN are stamped on the engine block and 727 at the top portion of the bell housing where it mates to the block - on both.

Lots of folks make up all kind of stories when they are downplaying the value of an original numbers matching car.

 

[aldal]

Mine 65 Coronet is....at least until the Hemi goes in it, not a real rare car so I don't care but I am glad numbers matching cars are out there.

 

[sputnik 440]

Absolutely not true. The last 6 digits of the VIN which are the sequence (serial) number are on the block at least as far back as 1966 (probably much earlier). I'm not certain about the body panels, but the engine can be verified that it matched the VIN on the car.
On my 1968 Road Runner with November 1967 build date, the last 6 digits of my VIN are stamped on the engine block and 727 at the top portion of the bell housing where it mates to the block - on both.
Lots of folks make up all kind of stories when they are downplaying the value of an original numbers matching car.

Well road runner, here are two different sources that dispute your accusation that the Sputnik 440 post was "Absolutely not true". On sources, I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours.....here are a couple. I don't know this for a fact, but I accept it 'til proved otherwise.
http://www.mmcdetroit.com/Buying_A_Car/
True numbers matching should be considered to be that the parts on the vehicle are the correct ones for that vehicle. However, In the case of the matching numbers on the block, including the partial VIN on the stamp pad, this implied originality. A vehicle that has a matching numbers block is considered to be the original block. However,.......
All engines produced after 1968 will have the VIN stamped on the ID pad. There is also a casting number and actual build dates located on the engine. These numbers should be reviewed to make sure that they are correct.

• Transmission -- The transmission produced after 1968 will have the VIN stamped on the ID pad. Just like the engine there is a build date on the transmission that should be before the build date of the car.... Like the transmission, it is not surprising that the VIN number was not stamped on the engine block prior to 1968 either. Second Source from prior 4 B Bodies post

4. The next item that is VERY important to numbers matching is the engine. For all 1967 and older engines (including low performance 1968 engines) you have to date the engine prior to the scheduled production date of the vehicle.
It is also confusing for people because the "hidden numbers" are different depending on the year of the car as to the factories use of S.O. numbers and V.I.N. You will notice that there is no V.I.N. located on the engine or transmission for 1967 and older AND this also applies to 1968 models as they were randomly stamped with the V.I.N. thoughout the model year with apparently no rhyme or reason.

 

[roadrunnerh]

Feel free to believe whatever you want. As for proof, all I need to do is walk out to my garage. Like I already said - On my 1968 Road Runner with November 1967 build date, the last 6 digits of my VIN are stamped on the engine block and 727 at the top portion of the bell housing where it mates to the block - on both.
At the moment, I don't feel like posting a pic of my VIN stamped on the engine and trans just to prove something.

 

[Cranky]

Mine was....but it was a /6 automatic car with factory AC which isn't real common for a 66 Belvedere I.

 

[roadrunnerh]

Mine was....but it was a /6 automatic car with factory AC which isn't real common for a 66 Belvedere I.

How did you know the slant was original?

 

[sputnik 440]

For me this is no problem. I have a '67 440 that is not stock anyway. The engine does not have vin #s on it, buts the body does they all match my vin. I will know the production of the engine occurred 2 weeks before the body was scheduled to be done. I do not know if the engine got there before the placement of an engine in m car; nor, do I know if an identified engine got there in time to be installed into mine. Question comes to mind. Unless someone ordered a special engine and it was identified as a special engine that goes into the designated vin car, then I doubt the factory would build HP engines with numbers matching the body and VIN. Why should they care, it just opens Pandora's Box over engines that are, for all intent and purposes......identical.
additional support from topic on 4 Only B Bodies
4) There are numerous examples of an Engine assembly date (EAD) with a date after the SPD. A block could have a later EAD than the SPD and be numbers matching.

I know it gets posted a lot and I'm afraid it is becoming incorrect 'common knowledge' but I have seen no credible research that indicates only HP blocks got a VIN stamps for model year 1968. It is true that not all plants stamped VINs at the same time so a 68 block may or may not have a VIN stamp but to say only HPs got stamped defies logic. I would ask that until documentation arises, people stop posting this information. If it gets posted enough times,

I don't care, mine isn't matching and at this point if I was told it was I wouldn't know how to approve it beyond a reasonable doubt. Good post, learned a lots. Thank ya'll. Too many cracks developing in a period of transition.

 

[69roadr]

1969 Plymouth Roadrunner with a 1970 Challenger RT 383 and a 69 Dodge Charger 440 transmission 18 spline non numbers matching

 

[Cranky]

How did you know the slant was original?

When the car was purchased, it had ALL of the original paper work in it including the window sticker and receipts for everything that was done to the car. Had no idea all that stuff was in it when I bought it plus when I took it apart, there was no evidence of an engine swap or trans swap. However, it did have many coats of paint on it....

 

[streetwedg]

When I bought my GTX it had a 400 cu in motor in it. 12 years later I found the original 440 that the car was built with. I bought a correct part # 71 HP trans, but it is not the original to the car. I started buying all correct part #, and date correct parts( carb,dust,alt,) then I came to my sesnes. If I ever wanted to get the car finished, forget the # and just put it together. Just took it for a 1200 mile weekend cruise and nobody asked if it was matching numbers.

 

[Challenger340]

Seems to be some confusion around when Full VIN #'s starting getting stamped on Engines & Trans ?
1968 or 1969 ?
And how far back into 1968 were they stamping VIN's.... or was it just as they started building "69" models in the fall of 1968 ?

Our 1969 Charger R/T SE was built Nov/1968 and has full VIN #'s on both Engine & Trans ?
The Car/Engine & Trans have never been rebuilt/touched or altered....all factory original, even the dam Exhaust System is still factory original on the Car.
(And yes, it still runs great)

 

[Cranky]

Btw, I care about a numbers matching car if I'm paying the price for one but other than that, I could care less. That said, I will not butcher any cars like 440 RT Challengers, Cudas, B bodies, Hemi cars......that kind of stuff.

 

[lewtot184]

i believe after jan 1st 1968 everything had to have an mvin stamped on the block. I think it was a federal law. there was a bunch of federal laws that went into effect jan 1st '68.

 

[PP1RT]

i believe after jan 1st 1968 everything had to have an mvin stamped on the block. I think it was a federal law. there was a bunch of federal laws that went into effect jan 1st '68.

Yes they were supposed to start then. Some had them before...some started later....it's a variation from plant to plant,,,line too line. You guys can argue til your blue in the face and there is more than one right answer.

 

[Challenger340]

IMO, what's more important than "numbers matching".... is making sure it's rebuilt back to factory original performance levels ?
FAR TOO MANY supposedly "numbers matching" 440 Cars rebuilt with the aftermarket jobber cast pistons that although advertised as "10:1"....
are actually,
7.8 or 8:1 TERDS that can't get out of their own way !
Making many "Numbers Matching" Mopar Muscle Cars...... rebuilt/restored into smogger 230hp motorhome Engined DUDS !