Keisler mistake

[Mopardudetn]

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[696pack]

What's my vested interest? I am a technician, a mechanic, and an enthusiest. I am not on commission, I get no kickback, I am not a salesman, nor do I work for Keisler Engineering. So, where is my vested interest? In my shop, we install products that work for both us and the customer. I back these guys up because I have had plenty of good experiences with their product and service. I didn't bad mouth YOU for having an unhappy experience, but only wished to understand you position better, and if possible offer help. I thought that is what these forums were for.
As far as the crossmember deal goes, it was on the show Chop Cut Rebuild. It was clearly stated that this was a new product and these were prototype parts. Nobody was being mislead. In fact, it was supposed to be a glimpse into what goes into this type of project.
But apparently, we all can't be as perfect as you folks.

EDIT:
I should say that after re-reading this thread that it appears the crossmember was not the problem. It really changes nothing with my basic thought here. It was still and EXPERIMENTAL.not done before install that should not have been done for the forst time in a magazine feature. the prove is in the pudding, the PUBLIC preceived it as a "problem" for Keisler.



If this is directed at my comments on the crossmember, you seem to be missing the point. My comments in this area have to to with what I believe to be Keisler's shortcomings with regard to the way they present their product and the way the sales are handled. As you can see from posts of others in this thread that have no vested interest in this situation, they too have questioned how this sale was PRESENTED as well as how the aftermath is being handled.
Keisler is gaining a reputation throughout the Internet as a company to be leary of for this very type of thing. As I said before I think the company needs to take a look at how they present their products not only in print but how their SALES PEOPLE present things.

Regardless of YOUR position in the company you work for, I would consider YOU to have a vested interest in the the situation you are speaking of. No one is complaining about you or your work in that situation, only in what SOUNDS like your defense of Keisler in the original poster's subject.

I can tell you that if it was MY company (Keisler) I never would have used a prototype part in a magazine article which is basically an advertisement for the company. As said above, a lesson learned-THE HARD WAY.

EDIT:

 

[Revhendo]

Okay, I know I am going to hate myself for this in the morning...
Vested interest inferrs financial gain. I am salaried and get a check whether stuff works or not.
My interest in this thread is because I have been using Keisler products for years with little or no trouble. Has everything been perfect? No, and I never said it was. I did say that I have not had any problems with customer service.
All too much, only the bad gets thrown about. Seldom does the good a person or company does get any acknowledgement. I was merely stating that I have not had a problem.
Again my main point for being here was because I install their product and I like to keep abreast of what's going on.
Because you are all well informed and pay attention to the details.
For instance, the crossmember thing was on a TV show, not a magazine article. I keep saying it was on a TV show Mr. SixPack and you keep calling it a magazine article. So, tell me, what are the perceptions of being mislead?
Also, once again. The intent of the TV show was to illustrate how a build can go. It was a new trans for Tremec, a new kit for Keisler, and my first install on this paticular combination. (Subframe, aftermarket body, et al.) You will notice if you WATCH the show, that we mocked up a 350 block and that trans, everything fit fine. It was when we put the LS7 in and the pan hit the subframe that the fun began.....
But, you probably read that on TV, too.

 

[moparstuart]

this blue GTX is the car that has the GM automatic installed in it . I called my buddy leo who did the install and he would be more then willing to talk to you free of charge and help you . FREE CUSTOMER SERVICE . :rolling: There are still good guys in this hobbie and most of the MOPAR guys are.

 

[696pack]

Okay, I know I am going to hate myself for this in the morning...
Vested interest inferrs financial gain. I am salaried and get a check whether stuff works or not.
My interest in this thread is because I have been using Keisler products for years with little or no trouble. Has everything been perfect? No, and I never said it was. I did say that I have not had any problems with customer service.
All too much, only the bad gets thrown about. Seldom does the good a person or company does get any acknowledgement. I was merely stating that I have not had a problem.
Again my main point for being here was because I install their product and I like to keep abreast of what's going on.
Because you are all well informed and pay attention to the details.
For instance, the crossmember thing was on a TV show, not a magazine article. I keep saying it was on a TV show Mr. SixPack and you keep calling it a magazine article. So, tell me, what are the perceptions of being mislead?Also, once again. The intent of the TV show was to illustrate how a build can go. It was a new trans for Tremec, a new kit for Keisler, and my first install on this paticular combination. (Subframe, aftermarket body, et al.) You will notice if you WATCH the show, that we mocked up a 350 block and that trans, everything fit fine. It was when we put the LS7 in and the pan hit the subframe that the fun began.....
But, you probably read that on TV, too.

Point well taken, I was mistaken and asleep at the wheel on the TVshow vs. magazine.

I am not throwing YOU under the bus, I am simply stating how many would PRECEIVE your first post regarding this. Happy to see that you have tried to refine your position. Unfortunately people often tire of these post exchanges and never see what people write after the first few posts.

New, new new. That was my point. Nothing directed at YOU. I just thought that it showed poor judgement on Keisler's part to put themselves in that position as it shows them being unprepared for the outcome. The first rule for attorneys in court when questioning witnesses is to never ask a question that they don't know the answer to. I think this same idea applies in this instance.

I hope I have not offended YOU as that was never my intent. Nor was it to offend Keisler, just my view on how it was handled.

 

[Revhendo]

Hey man, I'm not sweating it. I was just trying to say that Shafi brought two crossmembers. One that was in production, and one he wanted to try. The six speed in the project car is a new product from Tremec. Keisler is geared up for it, but Shafi Keisler wanted to try different combos also. I actually bolted that fricken trans to several different motors and fit them into that subframe and body. That is what they didn't show you on the tube. There isn't one manufacturer that can afford to have every conceivable combination in house to try. So, I didn't mind helping out in that respect. Selfishly I would suppose that it's in my best interest to find problems, solutions, or better techniques on someone elses dime. But, if I can do something that might save someone some grief while they are laying on their back in their driveway, then that's alright, too. After all, this isn't just my job, it's my hobby, my life, my community. I will forever be grateful for the post on the washer trick on LCA bushings. I won't even admit to how many years I had been chiseling those bastards out.

I think I got into this thread because someone made a comment about the trans not fitting on the TV car and I wanted to make sure folks new that it was not the equipments fault, it was mine. That, and call me old fashioned, but I will always back up someone who has done right by me.

So Mr Sixpack, at this point in the thread, it doesn't matter if anyone else reads it as long as YOU know that I respect your opinion and really do enjoy the exchange of ideas and whatnot. You can throw me under the bus if you want, I make a hell of a speed bump. We cool?

 

[5.7 hemi]

Well guy's, I see this thread has hit some sore spots so to speak, and everyone will/has a different opinion. With this hooby of building cars, there will be times when some stuff does not fit perfect or drop right in the first time. Case in point, new fenders, hoods trim, so on. I say this because my dad bought a new fender from Goodmark and it does not fit worth crap according to the body shop doing the work, so now they are going to use the original fender and go from there---reason is the Goodmark would take around 10-12 hours of work=$$$, but the original will only take 3-4 hours=$, so its a no brainer on that part.

Point is this, not everything we buy or create will fit, so some massaging is necessary. Now can we all just get along??????????

 

[5.7 hemi]

Like I said, I did not get to see the whole show, so with that said, I do apologize for getting anyone ticked off.

 

[Revhendo]

LOL, I ain't sweating it. That Camaro body was a repop. It took some "massaging".

 

[696pack]

Revhendo,

We cool.

 

[69 Runner]

Yeah. I looked up the price of that repop body. I think it was about $12.5K!!

 

[5.7 hemi]

I think e and b bodys should be on the list of repop bodys.

 

[Revhendo]

I've heard that Cuda's are on the way.
Tem, price a ratty '69 Camaro.
I am glad that there is a market that would support repoping complete bodies. My only caution would be (and this is just MY opinion) that if you build a body from a bunch of repair panels that are a bit off here, or a skosk of there, it has to add up somewhere...
I'm just saying....

 

[Revhendo]

By the way, is this what's known as hijacking a thread?

 

[5.7 hemi]

Let's hope we aren't hijacking this thread---- just throwing an idea around. Did you do the brakes on that Camaro? Those were fricking badass.

 

[696pack]

I've heard that Cuda's are on the way.
Tem, price a ratty '69 Camaro.
I am glad that there is a market that would support repoping complete bodies. My only caution would be (and this is just MY opinion) that if you build a body from a bunch of repair panels that are a bit off here, or a skosk of there, it has to add up somewhere...I'm just saying....

That has always been a concern for me with these old unibodies. It is unbelievable how many of these old cars with the paint stripped of them look like a patch work quilt made up of 10 different cars that was welded togather in someone's backyard with no idea or thoughts about if the body is lined up correctly.

Many people just don't understand that they get their strength from the entire unibody as BUILT from the factory. If one small area is not in line the whole thing is compromised. Many people don't know that Mopar made available diagrams with measurements and how and where to use them for body shops back in the day. It MAY be in the old service manuals. I have a copy of them if anyone needs them.

 

[Revhendo]

I picked up one of those frame charts when I bought my Valiant. It was a front end wreck and I wanted to be sure it was straight.
The Camaro uses a hydraformed front subframe from Detroit Speed and their rear Quadralink suspension. We tied it all together with Detroit Speed's subframe connectors. Regardless of how happy the body is, that foundation is rock solid and the car handles phenomenally.
The brakes are Baer's new six piston calipers and thirteen inch rotors. We added an electrically boosted brake master cylinder to it. That brake system works wickedly.
If you are looking for a brake master/booster setup that isn't as cumbersome as the Hydro-boost, check out the electric set ups. I've done about a dozen of them with out many difficulties.

 

[69 Runner]

:hijacked::backontopic:hthedrama:

:rolling:

 

[bill440rt]

I mostly lurk on this 'site, but I just stumbled across this thread & had to reply.
I just finished installing a Stage 2 auto OD trans kit from Keisler in my '69 Charger. You can read about it here:
http://www.dodgecharger.com/forum/index.php/topic,62840.0.html


Prior to my purchase of the Keisler unit, I researched some other OD setups. Although it was a large initial purchase, by the time I added up everything else that needed to be done by going with, say, a GV unit, the Keisler kit turned out to be way cheaper in the long run. I got a great deal on my kit too, as I am also a Moparts member (group discount offer).
My kit came with everything: trans, torque convertor, hardware, harness, ECM, lines, tranny cooler, crossmember, etc etc. Driveshaft was included but did not come initially. They gave me a diagram in which to measure for correct length. In hindsight I think that this is a good thing, given the tolerances of these cars. After the install, I called them with the measurements & I had my driveshaft within a week. Balanced, painted, new U-joints, yoke, etc ready to install.

All in all, there were a few minor snafus, & I do mean MINOR. It was actually a fun kit to install. A few snafus were: 1) A superceded instruction sheet for the shifter position sensor (there was a delay between when I received the trans & when I actually got around to installing it, engine was still at the machine shop); 2) MINOR mod to the trans mount (trimmed the ears to clear the tailshaft bolts); 3) Dimpling the floor (my fault, didn't whack it hard enough, didn't want to screw up the paint on my floorpans); 4) Hard trans lines were "generic" looking (1/2hr with the tube bender and they fit like a glove); 5) Mini-starter would not fit (NOT Keisler's fault, it was due to a casting burr on the engine block).

Anytime I ran into a snag, their tech support line was extremely helpful. I always got someone on the phone when I called for help. They emailed me the superceded instruction sheet for the shifter sensor immediately while I was on the phone with them. I have met Shafi at Carlisle, he was very pleasant to talk to and had some great info & tips for the installation.

I have yet to drive the car, I'm still buttoning it up, so I can't comment on performance yet. But, I can comment & say that I have had good customer experience with them and that their kit is simple and fun to install. I am by no means the poster child for Keisler, I am just an at-home restorer who tries to do as much as I can myself.
I'm sorry to hear that you had a bad experience with them, but for me that wasn't the case.

 

[696pack]

Nice to hear of some GOOD experiences too!